ic rated

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mark m.

Member
Location
New Jersey
hey guy's, I recently installed some tc-2 (juno non ic-rated) hi-hats on a 2nd floor addition. The electrical inspector came and passed the rough.No problem right. Well the building inspector who also is the insulating inspector failed it before it was ever insulated :confused: . He said he wants all hi-hats to be ic rated even if you keep the inso 3" away from the edge of the hi-hat.He went on to say something about a energy code. I never had this problem in the 15 years I've been in bus. Has anybody had this problem before?
 
ryan_618

ryan_618

Senior Member
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: ic rated

Mark, I am assuming you live in a state that has adopted the international energy conservation code. I looked your problem up in the IECC, but couldn't see the code addressed non-ic cans. Something interesting that I did find, however, was this:
Section 805.2.1.1 Bi-level switching. Each area that is required to have a manual control shall also allow the occupant to reduce the connected lighting load in a reasonably uniform illumination pattern by at least 50 percent. Excpetions: 1. Areas that only have one luminaire. 2. Areas that are controlled by a occupant-sensing device. 3. Corridors, storerooms, or public lobbies. 4. Guest rooms.

I have seen this done mant times, but didn't realize it was a requirement. I guess I better start adding that on my plan reviews! :(
 
electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Re: ic rated

Why would you install non ic cans in an insulated ceiling to begin with? This isn't an NEC issue but it is poor workmanship. If it were your heating bill you might think differently.
Anyway some energy codes require not only ic rating but also air tight.
 
M

mark m.

Member
Location
New Jersey
Re: ic rated

hey, scotty i've spoken to plenty of contractors about this issue & most of them use the same non ic hi-hats.
I guess it's not as cold in Jersey as it is in Boston.
As far as workmanship I'll put my up against yours anyday. You sound like typical frustrated Red sox fan.
 
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bill addiss

Senior Member
Re: ic rated

Mark,

We've just become aware of similar requirements in New York. As Scott says, recessed fixtures are required to be considered airtight too. I don't know specifics of the NJ Codes, but you may be able to build a box around them as an alternative to tearing them out.

Bill
 
roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: ic rated

Is this a residential or commercial requirement? Many commercial grade recessed fixtures are designed to "breath" and really can't be sealed.

I do know there are some on the market, we use them in health care, but for sterile purposes, and they usually carry a healthy (pun) price tag.

Roger
 
electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Re: ic rated

:eek: Just saying why not install the proper equipment in the first place that's all. GO SOX!

[ May 19, 2003, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
physis

physis

Senior Member
Re: ic rated

Mark,

I had the same problem once. All your inspector wants is a guarranty that insulation never be within 3 inches of non IC cans. Like Bill was saying, my inspector suggested I box them in and also said that's what most other guys do (so we're not alone).

I learned two valuable lessons when I did it.

[1.] How to box in non IC cans quickly and inexpensively. I think it was about 30 cans, took about 11 hours and $40.00 in material.

[2.] Use IC cans.

The good thing is that this lesson only needs to be learned once to stick. :)

[ May 20, 2003, 05:32 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
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bulldog

Member
Location
New Jersey
Re: ic rated

I just finished the first part of the electrical inspector course. It has brought to our attention that ic rated lights are required. This is do to the energy code. The cost difference is not that much. I price out all jobs with ic rated lights.
 
L

luke warmwater

Senior Member
Re: ic rated

I agree with Scott. Use Progress cans, P87-AT with 8066-28 trim. They are IC rated as well as air tight. No cost difference, and as good of product as the others.
 
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bill addiss

Senior Member
Re: ic rated

physis,

I had the same problem once. All your inspector wants is a guarranty that insulation never be within 3 inches of non IC cans.
Click to expand...
There may well be something in the NJ Building Codes about it. We have to start being aware of other code requirements that affect Electrical work. Unfortunately, we sometimes find out after the fact when something fails inspection. I've heard stories of many fixtures being torn out in my area because of this. It's in the Residential (Building) Code of NY.

Bill
 
C

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Re: ic rated

physis

IC rated recessed incandescent lights have been required in California for many years anyplace insulation is present.
 
R

rickg

Member
Location
Rhode Island
Re: ic rated

mark m
The NEC states that non ic recess fixtures be installed in "free air". You define free air. I do NOT believe that building a box around recess cans meets the free air requirement. It has taken a few years but most contractors in my towns use ic cans now, many have learned the hard way. In RI, I am not sure what energy code we use, may be in the IRC, (we do not use the IRC for electric), here a person can opt to calculate a prescriptive package regarding the insulation value of the dwelling. They have to factor in many things like window size & type, doors, amount of insulation, etc, etc. If they can decrease the heat loss elsewhere in the dwelling they may be able to have those non ic (holes in the ceiling) luminaires.
RickG
 
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bill addiss

Senior Member
Re: ic rated

I found this information, I don't know if it is the exact language in the code, but you should get the idea. This is basically the same requirements we have in NY now:

Mandatory Requirements for Recessed Lighting Fixtures (per Section 502.1.3 of the IECC)

(.... Recessed Incandesant Fixtures must meet one of the following:)

Type IC rated, with no penetrations between the inside of the recessed fixture and ceiling cavity (sealed and caulked)

Type IC or non-IC rated, installed inside a sealed box of ?" gypsum wallboard or other assembly manufactured for this purpose

Type IC rated, in accordance with ASTM E 283 to be an ?Air-Tight? enclosure.

Bill

[ May 20, 2003, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]
 
B

bill addiss

Senior Member
Re: ic rated

George,

Here is the section in the NY Residential Code.
It's section N1101.3.6 (page 268)

N1101.3.6 Recessed lighting fixtures. When installed in the building envelope, recessed lighting fixtures shall meet one of the following requirements:

1. Type IC rated, manufactured with no penetrations between the inside of the recessed fixture and ceiling cavity, and sealed or gasketed to prevent air leakage into the unconditioned space.

2. Type IC or non-IC rated, installed inside a sealed box constructed from a minimum 0.5-inch-thick (12.7mm) gypsum wallboard or constructed from a preformed polymeric vapor barrier, or other air-tight assembly manufactured for this purpose, while maintaining required clearance of not less than 0.5 inch (12.7mm) from combustible material and not less than 3 inches (76mm) from insulation material.

3. Type IC-rated, in accordance with ASTM E 283 admitting no more than 2.0 cubic feet per minute (cfm) (0.994 L/s) air movement from the conditioned space to the ceiling cavity. The lighting fixture shall be tested at 1.57 psi (75 Pa) pressure difference and shall be labeled.
Click to expand...
Bill
 
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