ice machines and disconnects in hotels

[ronball]

I just finished installing cord on ice machine ( 120 volt ) its own circuit. Inspector says it has to have a wall mounted disconnect , if it didn't come with cord already installed on it. I thought being able to unplug from outlet was the disconnect. dryers dont come with cords on them, and we cord them and plug in. What the facts. Ronball

 

[bradleyelectric]

I just finished installing cord on ice machine ( 120 volt ) its own circuit. Inspector says it has to have a wall mounted disconnect , if it didn't come with cord already installed on it. I thought being able to unplug from outlet was the disconnect. dryers dont come with cords on them, and we cord them and plug in. What the facts. Ronball

You need to ask him to show you where that is in the code. He may have an uncle that manufactures that ice machine and it is part of the UL listing/ paperwork that comes with the machine. It may also be a local amendment. Chances are he doesn't know what he thinks he knows.

 

[augie47]

I would think 422.16 would be a guide. Unfortunately there is room for interpretation. Frequent interchange ??? Is there a water line connected and is designed to permit ready removal ? Sounds like an AHJ call.

 

[JFletcher]

I'd look at 422.33(A).

 

[augie47]

I'd look at 422.33(A).

To me that addresses primarily factory cord & plug.
Most appliances that are "cord and plug" have factory cords which are mudt substantial than a field supplied cord & plug.
For example, the UL listing on dishwashers calls for a "factory supplied cord & plug".

 

[JFletcher]

To me that addresses primarily factory cord & plug.
Most appliances that are "cord and plug" have factory cords which are mudt substantial than a field supplied cord & plug.
For example, the UL listing on dishwashers calls for a "factory supplied cord & plug".

I don't see where it makes the distinction between a factory cord and plug or a field-supplied one. I was looking more at the "accessible" portion: I've seen a few ice machine installations in hotels, in alcoves, or set tightly next to other vending machines, where the plug is not accessible w/o moving the equipment (or becoming a contortionist ). I'm probably wrong on interpreting 422.33, but I'm thinking the accessibility of the plug may be more the issue than the field-installed cord and plug.

Ice machines (the ones I've worked on) do have to be serviced fairly often: many (all?) have replaceable water filters that are external of the machine.

 

[raider1]

I just finished installing cord on ice machine ( 120 volt ) its own circuit. Inspector says it has to have a wall mounted disconnect , if it didn't come with cord already installed on it. I thought being able to unplug from outlet was the disconnect. dryers dont come with cords on them, and we cord them and plug in. What the facts. Ronball

Is the ice machine listed or identified by the manufacture for cord and plug connection?

Chris

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I just finished installing cord on ice machine ( 120 volt ) its own circuit. Inspector says it has to have a wall mounted disconnect , if it didn't come with cord already installed on it. I thought being able to unplug from outlet was the disconnect. dryers dont come with cords on them, and we cord them and plug in. What the facts. Ronball

The inspector is not taking issue with the installation of the cord, right? So if the cord itself is not the issue, then under what section of code does a cord and plug not constitute a disconnect?

The only place where I could find something like this is 427.55(B), however, this applies to heating equipment. I think your inspector saw this and made the assumption it was universal to all equipment.

(B) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment. The factory-installed attachment plug of cord-and-plug-connected equipment rated 20 amperes or less and 150 volts or less to ground shall be permitted to be the disconnecting means.

 

[Rewire]

Disconnect means can be a cord and plug but sometimes it is hard for an inspector to grasp the idea

 

[augie47]

Disconnect means can be a cord and plug but sometimes it is hard for an inspector to grasp the idea

I don't think that concept is a hard to grasp as the idea that it's not proper to just install a cord and plug on any equipment and consider it acceptable. To me, the provisions of 400.7(B), 422.33 and other sections give creditability to the fact that cords do not have the "life" of fixed wiring. Equipment that is designed (and listed) for cord and plug connection is often equipped with a factory cord or requires a factory cord to satisfy the listing. Factory cords are often more durable than an off the shelf SJ cord, etc.
If the equipment has a factory cord or meets the requirements set forth in 400.7(B) then it's acceptable, if not then the equipment should be hard-wired, IMHO.

 

[raider1]

I don't think that concept is a hard to grasp as the idea that it's not proper to just install a cord and plug on any equipment and consider it acceptable. To me, the provisions of 400.7(B), 422.33 and other sections give creditability to the fact that cords do not have the "life" of fixed wiring. Equipment that is designed (and listed) for cord and plug connection is often equipped with a factory cord or requires a factory cord to satisfy the listing. Factory cords are often more durable than an off the shelf SJ cord, etc.
If the equipment has a factory cord or meets the requirements set forth in 400.7(B) then it's acceptable, if not then the equipment should be hard-wired, IMHO.

Well said Gus, I agree 100%.

Chris

 

[Rewire]

I don't think that concept is a hard to grasp as the idea that it's not proper to just install a cord and plug on any equipment and consider it acceptable. To me, the provisions of 400.7(B), 422.33 and other sections give creditability to the fact that cords do not have the "life" of fixed wiring. Equipment that is designed (and listed) for cord and plug connection is often equipped with a factory cord or requires a factory cord to satisfy the listing. Factory cords are often more durable than an off the shelf SJ cord, etc.
If the equipment has a factory cord or meets the requirements set forth in 400.7(B) then it's acceptable, if not then the equipment should be hard-wired, IMHO.

2005 NEC 400.7 Uses Permitted,422.33 Disconnection of cord andplug connected appliances

How do these sections add "credibility" to the asumption that cords do not have the "life " of fixed wiring.

 

[augie47]

Take a look at most any cord that's 15-25 years old and see what kind of shape it's in. Look at a piece of 25 yr. old Romex...look at a piece of TW in a 30 year old flex....compare..."assumption"--I think not....
Look at the factory cord required by a UL listed dishwasher, the factory cord on a UL listed MH fixture with canopy connection, the factory supplied cord with most ranges....they are normally more substantial than most "across the counter" cords.
To ME, part of the reasoning behind 400.7 is to limit the use of cords to situations where they are necessary (equipment that is portable, exchanged, subject to movement and vibration). The same hold true to
equipment listed for use with a factory cord. UL (or another NRTL) can control what type cord is used. An inspector in the field can not readily do so.
Like all else here...it' an opinion.... you are welcome to yours also.
In this case it's only the opinion of the OP's inspector that counts.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Take a look at most any cord that's 15-25 years old and see what kind of shape it's in. Look at a piece of 25 yr. old Romex...look at a piece of TW in a 30 year old flex....compare..."assumption"--I think not....

While this argument sounds logical, you are comparing apples to oranges. Flexible cord cannot be concealed, but romex must be concealed. Of course concealed or MC conductor is going to be in better shape, but if this is a portable appliance, they are not going to be applicable.

Look at the factory cord required by a UL listed dishwasher, the factory cord on a UL listed MH fixture with canopy connection, the factory supplied cord with most ranges....they are normally more substantial than most "across the counter" cords.

Quite the opposite. A manufacturer is going to utilize the minimum SJ cord required, but you have the ability to purchase SJO, SJOW, SJOOW, etc. even from your orange box store. Even if you don't need the oil and water protection, that SJOW cord is going to far outlast anything the manufacturer installs, and it will only cost you about $0.50 extra.

However, most of the responses here are missing the main point. The inspector did not flag the cord installation. This is not about whether a cord was installed or not. The inspector stated that a separate disconnect was needed above-and-beyond the cord-and-plug disconnect.

Another thing to consider is that this ice machine operates at 120 volts from a dedicated circuit, implying (not guaranteeing) a maximum 16 amp draw. To me, this suggests that this is a pretty small ice maker, comparable to what you would see in the vending machine area on each floor of a hotel. Not only would I expect something of this caliber to be cord and plug, but the last thing you would want is to have a glaring red handle disconnect hanging from the wall screaming out to the hellion juveniles to "turn me off"!

 

[augie47]

sounds to me like the inspector did flag the cord installation (the way I read the original post at least "Inspector says it has to have a wall mounted disconnect , if it didn't come with cord already installed on it....").
If it was in my inspection area, I would also flag the cord until I saw factory documentation or was convinced it met 400.7(B).
We may just disagree.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

sounds to me like the inspector did flag the cord installation (the way I read the original post at least "Inspector says it has to have a wall mounted disconnect , if it didn't come with cord already installed on it....").
If it was in my inspection area, I would also flag the cord until I saw factory documentation or was convinced it met 400.7(B).
We may just disagree.

The two issues are mutually exclusive, at least from the standpoint that the cord exists.

Either the installed cord is acceptable or it is not. If the cord is acceptable to the inspector, then adding a disconnect is not required. If the cord is not acceptable, then adding the disconnect does not make the cord any more or less acceptable.

Are you suggesting that adding the disconnect somehow makes the cord more acceptable? I would hope not.

The inspector did not say the cord had to go, and for that reason, his requirement for a disconnect is not valid.

The only reason for requiring a disconnect is if the system can be opened/serviced without moving the unit away from the wall, AND if the cord cannot be disconnected without moving the unit away from the wall. If the unit is easily movable, then even that argument fails.

 

[bradleyelectric]

sounds to me like the inspector did flag the cord installation (the way I read the original post at least "Inspector says it has to have a wall mounted disconnect , if it didn't come with cord already installed on it....").
If it was in my inspection area, I would also flag the cord until I saw factory documentation or was convinced it met 400.7(B).
We may just disagree.

Are you saying you would want to see in the documentation it specifically stating a cord was an acceptable wiring method or it specifying a cord was not acceptable?

 

[augie47]

If the situation did not meet 400.7(B) {400.7(A)-(3)(6)(8)} then I would want to see factory documentation that it was designed for cord and plug connection similar to the attached UL listing for dishwashers.
View attachment 3504

 

[MNWildcat]

Accessible

Accessible

I think this could be more of an issue of access. Is the receptacles behind the unit? Is the unit hard to move to gain access to the plug?
There was a thread a few weeks ago about a resi refg that had trim or other finishes built around it where that had to be physically removed to gain access to move the refg.
If this is a large unit that is not easily movable, I can see this applying.

_____________________________
Jeff

 

[Rewire]

If the situation did not meet 400.7(B) {400.7(A)-(3)(6)(8)} then I would want to see factory documentation that it was designed for cord and plug connection similar to the attached UL listing for dishwashers.
View attachment 3504

So you are saying you require proof on dryers and ranges from the factory that a cord and plug are acceptable.