We are using a #4 THHN black color insulated conductor for the equipment grounding (bonding) conductor. We are confused about the re-identification rules stated in 250.119(A)(2)(c). Does this rule mean that we need to tape the wire green along its entire length from where it leaves the conduit to the grounding bus or can we just tape the last 3-inches of the wire at the point were it terminates?
Identifing the green wire
- Thread starter gary b
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dana1028
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
Re: Identifing the green wire
250.119(A)(1) says what (where) must be permanently identified
250.119(A)(2) - says how it is to be identified.
(A)(1) - says 'each end' must be identified
(A)(2) - says how to identify these 'ends'.
250.119(A)(1) says what (where) must be permanently identified
250.119(A)(2) - says how it is to be identified.
(A)(1) - says 'each end' must be identified
(A)(2) - says how to identify these 'ends'.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Identifing the green wire
I read that rule as requiring the entire visible length to be re-identified, not just the last couple of inches.
I read that rule as requiring the entire visible length to be re-identified, not just the last couple of inches.
electricman2
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: Identifing the green wire
(A)(1) uses the words "at every point where the conductor is accessible" in addition to the "ends". To me that means if I can see or touch it it must be identified.
(A)(1) uses the words "at every point where the conductor is accessible" in addition to the "ends". To me that means if I can see or touch it it must be identified.
marinesgt0411
Senior Member
- Location
- Naples,FL 34110-9285
Re: Identifing the green wire
250.119(A)(2) coloring the EXPOSED insulation or covering green
to me that says if you can see it you have to mark it if you have to put 10 pieces of tape at different points along the wire you have to put 10 pieces of tape. you only have to mark the exposed part of the wire
if you can see the wire come out of the conduit and go to the ground it need only be marked twice if it is hidden by other wires or other things it needs to be marked at every point it can be seen
250.119(A)(2) coloring the EXPOSED insulation or covering green
to me that says if you can see it you have to mark it if you have to put 10 pieces of tape at different points along the wire you have to put 10 pieces of tape. you only have to mark the exposed part of the wire
if you can see the wire come out of the conduit and go to the ground it need only be marked twice if it is hidden by other wires or other things it needs to be marked at every point it can be seen
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Identifing the green wire
I consider "each end" to be the entire length of the conductor from the point it exits the raceway in the enclosure all the way to its termination. So yes, the entire exposed portion of the conductor.
The language in 250.119 is different than that in 200.6(B) which specifically identifies "at its termination".
I consider "each end" to be the entire length of the conductor from the point it exits the raceway in the enclosure all the way to its termination. So yes, the entire exposed portion of the conductor.
The language in 250.119 is different than that in 200.6(B) which specifically identifies "at its termination".
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Identifing the green wire
I agree with Ryan and Bryan.
I agree with Ryan and Bryan.
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Identifing the green wire
If I mark the grounding conductor green the last 6" before the termination and you cannot figure out that it's the grounding conductor between there and where it comes out of the raceway, then you really have no business being in said panel or termination point.
If I mark the grounding conductor green the last 6" before the termination and you cannot figure out that it's the grounding conductor between there and where it comes out of the raceway, then you really have no business being in said panel or termination point.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Identifing the green wire
Don
Even if it is not marked, if you can't tell the function of the conductor at its termination point, you are not a qualified person and have no business working on the sytem.
Don
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Identifing the green wire
Where in 250.119 does it mention "qualified persons"?
250.119(A)(2)b. says it very well "Coloring the exposed insulation or covering green"
If the conductor enters an enclosure, box, whatever you would like to call it, it is required to be identified green in color for the length it is exposed.
Where in 250.119 does it mention "qualified persons"?
250.119(A)(2)b. says it very well "Coloring the exposed insulation or covering green"
If the conductor enters an enclosure, box, whatever you would like to call it, it is required to be identified green in color for the length it is exposed.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Identifing the green wire
Don
There is no real debate as to the code rule, only to the necessity of the rule. Marking or no marking, if the person working on the system cannot tell the function of an EGC at its termination, he or she is not qualified to do the work. Also the rule is excessive, there is no reason for the rule to say that all of the exposed insulation must be marked green. A single strip of tape at the termination would do the job just as well as covering all of the exposed insulation.
Don
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Identifing the green wire
To me the "at every point" part is refering to the possibility of there being a junction box or pull point along the path. If you open a junction box, and if you can see the EGC, then you must mark the EGC within that box using one of the three methods described in (A)(2).Originally posted by electricman2: (A)(1) uses the words "at every point where the conductor is accessible" in addition to the "ends". To me that means if I can see or touch it it must be identified.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Identifing the green wire
We mark phases and neutrals for the same reason, no?
Let us not forget that the termination can be undone, such as for panel repair or replacement, in which case the termination can no longer provide the conductor's purpose.
We mark phases and neutrals for the same reason, no?
Re: Identifing the green wire
As I read 250.119 (A)(2)(a) it states that when striping the wire bare the installer would remove the cover from the "entire exposed length".
In (b) and (c) the word "entire" is not used. To me this is significant use of the word (or not use of the word in this case) and would be interpreted to mean that you are only required to mark the exposed insulation. If you marked the entire length of exposed insulation or just the ends and/or in the middle of the conductor would be left up to the interpretation of the AHJ or the installer in some cases.
As I read 250.119 (A)(2)(a) it states that when striping the wire bare the installer would remove the cover from the "entire exposed length".
In (b) and (c) the word "entire" is not used. To me this is significant use of the word (or not use of the word in this case) and would be interpreted to mean that you are only required to mark the exposed insulation. If you marked the entire length of exposed insulation or just the ends and/or in the middle of the conductor would be left up to the interpretation of the AHJ or the installer in some cases.
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