Illegal work

[Minuteman]

One of my A/C contractor buddies gave my number to a Realtor that is try to sell a small house. Seems the home inspector is requiring a "permanent heating source" to be installed in the home. A/C guy punts and Realtor has me over to bid installing baseboard heat. I wish I had not left my camera on the bucket truck

The house is only about 800 ft/2 and was newly bricked. The 60-amp meter pan is now recessed into the brick, and the brick surrounds the meter so light that some brick would need to be removed to remove the band that seals the meter. The riser is also behind the brick, and is one of those old time "goose neck" risers. It's a 1" RMC that I believe goes up about 2', to the right about 5', and then back up to the weather head. The conductors look like two #6 TW and one #6 bare.

The panel is a brand new Cutler Hammer BR, about a 12/20 with a 100-amp main. Most of the breakers are labeled in the same foreign language that the residents speak. The service is in a laundry room addition to the home, and has a very low, flat, roof. There is no attic connecting the add on to the home. There is a NM running out of the wall, exposed, to feed the laundry room.

Anyway. The Realtor says, "Just give me a price to install 4' of baseboard heat and a line thermostat. We close on Monday. If you need him to run the wire, he will and You can just hook it up."

I don't need this kinda stuff. Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[nakulak]

its no crime to just tell someone - "look, I'm sorry but there's too many violations here - I just can't stick that in and put my name on it"

 

[Minuteman]

its no crime to just tell someone - "look, I'm sorry but there's too many violations here - I just can't stick that in and put my name on it"

That's what I said. Almost word for word.

 

[480sparky]

They can afford to brick an 800 ft? house but can't afford an electrical update?

 

[mdshunk]

If your state has adopted the IECC (most have) you can't even install electric baseboard heat in any home without having certain R values in the walls and ceilings.

 

[growler]

They can afford to brick an 800 ft? house but can't afford an electrical update?

They have a new 100 Amp panel don't they? That's the part that shows. :grin: :grin:

They may have new brick but do the have a brick ledge? Those bricks may be laying on the ground or on 2" of concrete ( I have seen it before). It's just needs to look like a brick job.

What they need is a real home inspection.

 

[mdshunk]

If the old meter base is bricked in that tight, I've bolted a new meter can right over top of the whole works a few times if it's flush with the meter removed.

 

[growler]

If your state has adopted the IECC (most have) you can't even install electric baseboard heat in any home without having certain R values in the walls and ceilings.

Even then one 4 ft. base board heater is not going to heat 800 sq ft.

If the do go for all electric heat they will need a minumim of a real 100 amp service. If they don't have gas that means an electric water heater and an electric range. That 60 /Amp service they have is already overloaded.

These people are trying to fake it to get a bank or FHA loan ( the real estate agent ) and they should be in jail.

 

[realolman]

These people are trying to fake it to get a bank or FHA loan ( the real estate agent ) and they should be in jail.

Whether the house is constructed properly or not, is somewhat irrelevent.

Mortgage this property, with no down payment, to someone who's loan application clearly shows they can't possibly pay, collect your broker's commission... bundle that transaction with a couple million more of the same ( oh yes, at a commission )... call it real estate secured investments... sell it to larger and larger institutions, whose real estate secured stocks and bonds me and you are buying hoping to retire someday, and you have what we got today.

Oughta be a lotta people in jail... Mainly the ones who watched it happen and neglected to make such crap illegal. So long as the prices kept rising and the places could be "flipped" ( with the accompanying TV show ) at a profit, everybody involved was happy with their little house of cards. Never mind the po' folks and their families who got tossed outta their houses.

Not to worry though... Congress'll make sure the rich guys running the scheme'll get out OK .

 

[mdshunk]

Even then one 4 ft. base board heater is not going to heat 800 sq ft.

It might. I think the OP is from Oklahoma. You only need to maintain 68 degrees on the coldest design day of the year. How cold does it get in Oklahoma? Four feet of heat is 1000 watts.

 

[LarryFine]

Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion

Not always right, but never in doubt.

 

[Minuteman]

It might. I think the OP is from Oklahoma. You only need to maintain 68 degrees on the coldest design day of the year. How cold does it get in Oklahoma? Four feet of heat is 1000 watts.

You are right, it doesn't get that cold here, or at least not for over a day or two. (I have also lived in Michigan, and it ain't the same).

 

[Minuteman]

These people are trying to fake it to get a bank or FHA loan ( the real estate agent ) and they should be in jail.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Minuteman]

Oh, and the Realtor guy was like all indignant about my turning down the work. Like, somehow I was to be grateful or something for the chance to bid it. He kept saying, "Just give me a number". So, I told him to try 911.

 

[SmithBuilt]

Would it really be illegal to install one 4' baseboard heater?

I appreciate the fact that all of you are stand up guys and try do the right thing.

IMO if you pulled a permit and installed it per local code you've done your part. We as EC's do not like when other trades or inspectors overstep their boundaries. If the local inspection department approves the install I say go for it.

Now the local hack will get a little income.

 

[Minuteman]

Would it really be illegal to install one 4' baseboard heater?

I appreciate the fact that all of you are stand up guys and try do the right thing.

IMO if you pulled a permit and installed it per local code you've done your part. We as EC's do not like when other trades or inspectors overstep their boundaries. If the local inspection department approves the install I say go for it.

Now the local hack will get a little income.

It's not the baseboard. The AHJ has this sort of, "You touched it, you fix it" mentality. So, as far as I know, I can't put a legal install unto an illegal panel. Or, at the very least - I don't want to.

 

[growler]

Oh, and the Realtor guy was like all indignant about my turning down the work. Like, somehow I was to be grateful or something for the chance to bid it. He kept saying, "Just give me a number". So, I told him to try 911.

Just tell them the truth. The installation of a heating system ( even a baseboard heater ) would require a permit and an inspection. The inspector isn't going to be happy and it will run into some really serious money ( new service to start with because it's a hazard ).

The fact that they bricked in the meter is enough for the power company to slut the power off. Once the power is off they will want an inspection of the service to restore power.

They have a mess on their hands and I'm surprised the home inspector didn't catch some of it.

 

[crossman]

He kept saying, "Just give me a number". So, I told him to try 911.

Oh man, that is a classic!:grin: :grin: :grin:

I've been on some of these types of things myself in the past. A D-9 Cat would have been the most economical solution.

 

[Rampage_Rick]

A D-9 Cat would have been the most economical solution.

One word... ANFO



Or is that "one acronym"?

 

[Minuteman]

One word... ANFO



Or is that "one acronym"?

Okay Rick, I'll bite. What is ANFO?