I'm hot for teacher......

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electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
I have a "megger" (really a Fluke 1507 insulation tester) and I don't know how to use it.

Anyone in the Massachusetts area want to show me how?

My particular need is to trouble shoot some AFCI circuits.

I can't find anyone around here that knows how to do this. I want to be the first.

The common answer is "get your inspection than put in regular breakers..."

Help a brother out.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I have a "megger" (really a Fluke 1507 insulation tester) and I don't know how to use it.

Anyone in the Massachusetts area want to show me how?

My particular need is to trouble shoot some AFCI circuits.

I can't find anyone around here that knows how to do this. I want to be the first.

The common answer is "get your inspection than put in regular breakers..."

Help a brother out.

There have been numerous threads on this but you could call Fluke and get help there.
 

khixxx

Senior Member
Location
BF PA
--

Any way I would just use the google, or call fluke customer service. Sorry I lost interest on this thread :(
 
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as long as you been here, im suprised you dont know this stuff already. Anyways, MDshunk (aka Marc) is the 'megger man'. search his name with the 'megger' and you should find the info.

The rule of thumb for meggering is double the voltage for what you are meggering. for example it would be acceptable to megger a 240 system at 500v on the megger or 1000v for a 480volt system, and you would want at least 1 megohm of a reading (this is pushing it). otherwise there is a potential problem.

Be careful about lamps, computers, etc being plugged in cause you can ruin them. I always start out on the lower ohm reading before i go to the megohms to be sure we didnt miss anything being unplugged.

As for the afci, if i understand correctly how they work (senseing arcing on ground to neutral or hot to neutral or ground) then you can disconnect the bond in the panel and the equipment and megger the wire, any reading should come up that would help prevent that afci from tripping, ASSUMING the afci is working properly as i dont trust them and they should not be required anywhere in residential, but thats another topic.

Hope this info helps. good day.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
True. For troubleshooting a tripping AFCI, such as he wants to do, rules of thumb are really all he needs to burden himself with.

Agreed, just want to be clear on that. Some of us are not allowed to follow "rules of thumb" but rather actual recognized specs to maintain our certification. But for this instance 1 Meg will work.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
Hey Scott,


Rules from the road, don't zap fire alarm wire at more than 300VDC. We did a job replacing what the contractor before us screwed up. All the wire he hit, looked like it was blasted with salt and pepper - little tiny holes all through the stuff. Assume he zapped it at 500 or a 1000 - why is beyond me. Fire alarm? I normally put a fluke 87 on it and let it count itself out to 40 meggaohms....Sold!


Ok, what are the 'recognized specs' and what 'cerification is that??

600V wire gets hit at 1000V.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
Test Procedures:

1. Proof Test: Simple Go-No Go procedure; if the insulation is good, it will not fail.

2. Insulation Resistance Test: Regular testing to determine gradual decrease in insulation resistance. This provides a means for predicting future insulation failure.

3. Polarization Index Test: For testing high capacitance systems such as large motors, generators, or apparatus with complex insulation systems. Steady readings are only possible after the time-dependent currents have almost died down. Test measures the ratio between insulation resistance readings taken at one minute and ten minutes after the application of voltage to judge the rate of disappearance of capacitance and absorption currents. A ratio known as the polarization index can be obtained by dividing the value from the 10 minute reading by the value from the one-minute reading. A low polarization index usually indicates excessive moisture and contamination. On large motors or generators, values as high as 10 are commonly expected.

4. Step Voltage Test: Provides more information about the insulation than any other test; measures the current at several different levels of voltage to provide a trend or curve to predict need for repair or replacement. Step increases with two or more voltages @ 1:5 ratio, each step lasting 60 seconds.I normally only load the wire up till needle settles down - about 5 to 10 seconds, if it is just for my own information


Facts about Insulation Testing:

1. The commonly used DC test voltages for AC rated equipment are:


up to 100 Volts 100 or 250 Volts DC
440-550 Volts 500 or 1000 Volts DC
2400 Volts 1000-2500 Volts DC
4160 Volts 1000-5000 Volts DC

Readings will never be the same unless the specimen is discharged (4-5 times test period). 500 VDC is the most commonly required voltage since it is used to test all circuits except low voltage circuits with a nominal voltage up to and including 500 Volts. A 250 VDC test capability is necessary to test low voltage circuits supplied by an isolation transformer. A 50 Volt range will allow testing delicate components and equipment with up to 55 V of electrical interference, or cross talk.


2. Test or Proof voltages for equipment is considerably higher than used for routine maintenance testing. The rule of thumb:

DC maximums can be determined by the following formula:

Equipment before being put into service

Factory AC Test = 2 x Nameplate + 1000 Volts

DC proof test or insulation 0.8 x nameplate x 1.6


DC proof test after service 0.6 x nameplate x 1.6

Example:

Motor with 2400 Volt AC nameplate
Factory AC test= 2 (2400) + 1000 = 5800 VAC
Maximum DC test of Insulation: 0.8 (5800) 1.6 = 7242 VDC
Max DC test after service: 0.6 (5800) 1.6 = 5568 VDC

3. There are 3 types of current that appear in insulation testing:

A. Capacitance Charging Current
This is the current which is like a condenser, which starts out high and tapers off rapidly to zero.

B. Absorption Current

This is due to the polarization of the insulating materials. It takes longer for absorption current to reach a static point than charging current and, likewise, takes a much longer time to bleed off. On large or long cables it is important to short out the cable after test to eliminate the possibility of shock to the person conducting the test.

C. Leakage Current

This is the current we are really concerned about. It is a steady current leakage through or over the insulation due to moisture, dirt, or other reasons. This test must be continued for one minute or until the reading holds steady for 15 seconds. This assures us that the capacitative and absorption currents have reached a static point. This will vary with the equipment under test. Motors and transformers will take longer than average conductors.

4. Megger Insulation Testers come in three basic types: Hand crank, Line or Motor operated, or Battery (or in combination). Battery or AC is preferred for tests one minute or longer in duration.

5. Danger:

A. All equipment under test MUST be disconnected and isolated.

B. Equipment should be discharged (shunted or shorted out) for at least as long as the test voltage was applied in order to be absolutely safe for the person conducting the test.

C. Never use an Insulation Tester in an explosive atmosphere.

D. Make sure all switches are blocked out and cable ends marked properly for safety.


Found here
 
A few years ago, I was working on a light rail system. We used 2kV wire.
So, the megger used had to be capable of handling that. Well, there were only a couple options... because our megger only went up to 1000VDC. So, we used 1000VDC because the light rail only used 750VDC... The insurance and the owner accepted that.

One of the general foreman on the project used to work for Square D... he stated that standard THHN, rated for 600V, has a breaking point of just under 2kV... time and time again. So, if you want to 1000V on THHN, don't worry about it breaking. And, if you do get a problem, then it is legitamite.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
Interesting on the THWN.

Heat trace is another beast that is megged a lot on install. Class 1, Div1 area, explosion proof Raychem...gets zapped at 5000VDC from a good meggar. If it's going to fail , fail durimg testing, arcing in a C1D1 area could lead to disasterous results.
 
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