Improving ground impedance

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JonM4

Member
Location
Seattle
Occupation
Homeowner
I am a homeowner, not an electrician. But you guys seem ultra-sharp and I'd appreciate some voices of reason.

I am an audio nut. Lower ground impedance is better for sound quality.

This house is grounded to rebar encased in a concrete foundation. I didn't build this house but I have to assume what is inside the concrete is correct and per code. There is an access plate to the connection inside the garage.

Question for you folks: if I hired an electrician to (1) test and measure the ground impedance and then (2) run heavy-gauge copper ground wire (like 4 gauge solid) from the rebar/ground wire connection point inside the garage outside to 2 or 3 additional ground rods, would that improve ground impedance? I would ask the electrician to test again to see before and after readings. The rods would be 8' (or 10') long copper, spaced about 10 feet apart, a few feet from the side of the house. The ground is usually pretty wet in that area too.

There is a point of diminishing returns for everything, but my guess is this work would not cost very much to do. Compared to some costs in audio, it might be a good mod for the house. Appreciate any insights you might have...
 
I agree with Larry it's a waste of time and money. If it measures 20Ω and you get it down to 10Ω what do you feel that it will actually accomplish?
 
Where are you getting the information on lowering ground impedance?
Please post a link to a article. If you are going to lower impedance, the correct way is to pick a target impedance, do a soil resistance test, and use that to design your grounding system.
sectional rods can be used, resistance is measured every 10 ft, often going to 50 ft
It’s not as easy as you think.
Anyway please post article
 
No need to worry about ground impedance if one of THESE are used. 😁

I would buy 25 in order to get the best pricing.

Roger
 
roger said:
No need to worry about ground impedance if one of THESE are used. 😁 ...
Click to expand...
"Accepts standard house wiring 8 - 12 AWG"
So ... if your house is wired with "only" 14 AWG wire, I guess you'll need to remove and upgrade the wiring before installing these "Audio Grade Recepticles" [sic]?

In all seriousness ... The rebar matrix in the slab (look up "Ufer" for additional insight) is already providing a good ground plane for anything & everything inside the house. You could reduce the impedance between the slab and the Earth with additional ground rods, but nothing inside the house, on top of the Ufer ground plane, would notice any change.

My first question: What is nature of the problem (?) you're trying to solve? If it's anything other than 60-Hertz hum, changes to your electric-power distribution are completely missing the mark.
 
Thank you all for the input. I am an audio "nut", but for the record I use lowly $18 apiece Hubbell 20-amp receptacles. So I am probably on the lower end of the spectrum.

I thought maybe adding ground rods would be an easy win, sounds like it's not.
 
JonM4 said:
I thought maybe adding ground rods would be an easy win, sounds like it's not.
Click to expand...
It's really a question of what you're trying to achieve. In all likelihood the system that is already in place is probably adequate.
 
infinity said:
It's really a question of what you're trying to achieve. In all likelihood the system that is already in place is probably adequate.
Click to expand...
This.

I work with a number of small-market radio stations. There is almost never anything augmenting code-required grounding, and as long as single-point grounding rules are followed, there is no problem with audio. The only time there is additional grounding would be if a tower is adjacent to the studio building; then there would be additional grounding provisions for lightning protection or RF issues.
 
This is just one of a countless number of audiophile misunderstandings and myths. The connection to Planet Earth (GEC) has very little to do with day-to-day audio quality (or AC power quality, for that matter) it's there for safety reasons.
Now the Safety Ground (EGC) connection to the Neutral at the main breaker box is very important!
 
JonM4 said:
I am a homeowner, not an electrician. But you guys seem ultra-sharp and I'd appreciate some voices of reason.

I am an audio nut. Lower ground impedance is better for sound quality.

This house is grounded to rebar encased in a concrete foundation. I didn't build this house but I have to assume what is inside the concrete is correct and per code. There is an access plate to the connection inside the garage.

Question for you folks: if I hired an electrician to (1) test and measure the ground impedance and then (2) run heavy-gauge copper ground wire (like 4 gauge solid) from the rebar/ground wire connection point inside the garage outside to 2 or 3 additional ground rods, would that improve ground impedance? I would ask the electrician to test again to see before and after readings. The rods would be 8' (or 10') long copper, spaced about 10 feet apart, a few feet from the side of the house. The ground is usually pretty wet in that area too.

There is a point of diminishing returns for everything, but my guess is this work would not cost very much to do. Compared to some costs in audio, it might be a good mod for the house. Appreciate any insights you might have...
Click to expand...
What makes you believe lower ground impedance gives you better audio quality?

You can spend all the money you want to on grounding. It is not something that is going to change your audio quality IMO, but it is your money and you can spend it as you see fit.

If you really want to improve your audio quality you should replace your outlets with the ones that cost $100 a pop. Just kidding, but there are people stupid enough to believe this and there are people wasting their money on them.

1637098958022.png
 
petersonra said:
What makes you believe lower ground impedance gives you better audio quality?

You can spend all the money you want to on grounding. It is not something that is going to change your audio quality IMO, but it is your money and you can spend it as you see fit.

If you really want to improve your audio quality you should replace your outlets with the ones that cost $100 a pop. Just kidding, but there are people stupid enough to believe this and there are people wasting their money on them.

View attachment 2558404
Click to expand...
Those are not even code complaint in the US because the ground screw is not green. $100 violation that's no better than a $5 receptacle.
61vdp8X08zL._AC_SL1400_.jpg
 
JonM4, it would help you a lot to look into what "balanced" and "differential" means in regards to audio signal transmission and circuitry. There is a lot of misinformation on the web so read a few sources, ideally from the pro audio side.

Most consumer/audiophile gear is neither. IMHO that is the problem and the reason why you are concerned with ground impedance. I could say a lot more but if you aren't willing to do a little homework and grasp these concepts it would be a waste of both of our's time and this website's bandwidth.
 
Russs57 said:
JonM4, it would help you a lot to look into what "balanced" and "differential" means in regards to audio signal transmission and circuitry. There is a lot of misinformation on the web so read a few sources, ideally from the pro audio side.

Most consumer/audiophile gear is neither. IMHO that is the problem and the reason why you are concerned with ground impedance. I could say a lot more but if you aren't willing to do a little homework and grasp these concepts it would be a waste of both of our's time and this website's bandwidth.
Click to expand...
Russs57, I am happy to read and learn more for sure. I will read any links you might recommend. All of the connections I have between the sources and the preamp, and to the power amps, are balanced/differential. You were referring to balanced and differential with respect to signal paths, yes?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top