In ground swimming pool

[HEYDOG]

I have not done an in ground swimming pool in years…but just got a call from an inspector with a question about the bonding conductor. I had a two minute conversation with him and here is what is asked me. He said that there is rebar completely around the decking that will be bonded at 4 points with a number 8 awg conductor. He stated that there is going to be three low voltage lights installed in the pool.. He told me that the contractor has already installed a 1” pvc conduit in a trench that is buried already. I have no pictures so I do not know how anything looks. He did saying the bonding conductor is going to hit the rebar at the 4 corners and would be continuous back to the lug on the pump. Bottom line is he wanted to know if the bonding conductor and the low voltage conductors could be installed in the same conduit. I told him that there is not anything in the code….that I know of that would prohibit it. Any thoughts on this?

 

[letgomywago]

The 8 solid is allowed in conduit in pools but I wouldn't want to pull it unless this is a straight shot no bends for the sleeve.

 

[Mystic Pools]

I have not done an in ground swimming pool in years…but just got a call from an inspector with a question about the bonding conductor. I had a two minute conversation with him and here is what is asked me. He said that there is rebar completely around the decking that will be bonded at 4 points with a number 8 awg conductor. He stated that there is going to be three low voltage lights installed in the pool.. He told me that the contractor has already installed a 1” pvc conduit in a trench that is buried already. I have no pictures so I do not know how anything looks. He did saying the bonding conductor is going to hit the rebar at the 4 corners and would be continuous back to the lug on the pump. Bottom line is he wanted to know if the bonding conductor and the low voltage conductors could be installed in the same conduit. I told him that there is not anything in the code….that I know of that would prohibit it. Any thoughts on this?

Are the pool lights a wet niche type? A bond wire gets attached to the lug inside the niche and then runs through the light conduit and terminates in the deck/junction box. So your low voltage light cord and the bond wire are in the same common conduit terminating at a deck/junction box.
The lug in the niche requires a potting compound. There's also a lug on the outside of the niche that connects a bond wire to the pool's rebar. Some inspectors in the past wanted potting compound on that lug also.
We have not installed wet niche lights on new construction or renos in 15 + years. We install the nicheless lights.

Nicheless 12V lights require no bonding. The light fixture goes in an 1.5" or 2" PVC pipe.

Your 4 points are connected to a bare. solid #8 that runs around the perimeter of the pool. If there's wire mesh or rebar for a concrete patio, it's connected to that as well.
We will hit 2-3 points on the rebar and run a dedicated #8 back to the equipment set for any motors, heaters, etc... Ask your inspector if your job requires water bonding.

 

[Little Bill]

I never run the bonding conductor in conduit. Not needed, not required, would be a difficult pull!

 

[Buck Parrish]

#8 solid is not allowed in conduit. Unless it is being sleeved a short distance for physical protection.
But it is not a good idea to mix the LV lighting with #8 solid any way. The number 8 just goes in bare copper no conduit. That LV wire is delicate. They all have to be the same lenth.

 

[letgomywago]

#8 solid is not allowed in conduit. Double check maybe it's #6 solid.
But it is not a good idea to mix the LV lighting with #8 solid any way. The number 8 just goes in bare copper no conduit. That LV wire is delicate. They all have to be the same lenth.

Pools have an exception

 

[Buck Parrish]

Pools have an exception

I'm curious what section. I like to read it that way I can remember it better.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Personally I try to avoid putting the equipotential bonding jumper in any live box or conduit with voltages of any sort. I know it is tied back to the panel through the equipment ground on the motor. But even that IMO is a problem if the neutral is ever lossed.
If you'll notiice all the bond lugs are on the outside of the equipment.
Also dont forget the metal handrails need to be bonded if any.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

There is an exception in 680.23(B)(2)(B) but this is for underwater lighting

(b) Nonmetallic Conduit. Where a nonmetallic conduit is
used, an 8 AWG insulated solid or stranded copper bonding
jumper shall be installed in this conduit unless a listed low-voltage
lighting system not requiring grounding is used. The
bonding jumper shall be terminated in the forming shell, junction
box or transformer enclosure, or ground-fault circuitinterrupter
enclosure. The termination of the 8 AWG bonding
jumper in the forming shell shall be covered with, or encapsulated
in, a listed potting compound to protect the connection
from the possible deteriorating effect of pool water.

 

[Buck Parrish]

There is an exception in 680.23(B)(2)(B) but this is for underwater lighting

Okay, thanks. That does sound a little outdated as the pools I have done lately. The housing to the small led lights are plastic. I can not imagine any body still using a metal housing. I suppose it is possible.
So the same # 8 there to protect you can actually kill you when a main neutral is lossed.

 

[letgomywago]

Okay, thanks. That does sound a little outdated as the pools I have done lately. The housing to the small led lights are plastic. I can not imagine any body still using a metal housing. I suppose it is possible.
So the same # 8 there to protect you can actually kill you when a main neutral is lossed.

Think about the idea though of needing 2 different types of number 8 on a pool install though.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Think about the idea though of needing 2 different types of number 8 on a pool install though.

I don't know what you mean by that. I'm parplexed...

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Okay, thanks. That does sound a little outdated as the pools I have done lately. The housing to the small led lights are plastic. I can not imagine any body still using a metal housing. I suppose it is possible.
So the same # 8 there to protect you can actually kill you when a main neutral is lossed.

The #8 is a bond, not a grounding conductor. Its sole purpose is to keep the area around the pool and all the metal parts at the same potential. This will avoid shock if there is current in the earth. It would indeed have current everywhere but at the same potential so you wouldn't get shocked.

 

[Little Bill]

There is an exception in 680.23(B)(2)(B) but this is for underwater lighting

That #8 is not the equipotential bond. It is a jumper for the EGC. There is a separate #8 that is run from the outside of the niche to the equipotential grid. Also notice it has to be insulated.