"In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

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JJWalecka

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
Is it required by the code to use "in use covers" (Bubble covers) with GFCI receptacles for Air Conditioning Unit service plugs?
If the Unit was provided by the factory a flat vertical Weather proof pre assembled. The GFCI and cover would have to be removed to fed. Would you be required to change it?
Any feedback is appreciated.

Justin W.
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

IMO if this receptacle is factory installed on a UL listed unit the NEC does not apply to it.

The same question has been asked about receptacles on portable generators.

Part of 90.7
It is the intent of this Code that factory-installed internal wiring or the construction of equipment need not be inspected at the time of installation of the equipment, except to detect alterations or damage, if the equipment has been listed by a qualified electrical testing laboratory that is recognized as having the facilities described in the preceding paragraph and that requires suitability for installation in accordance with this Code.
Click to expand...
Here in MA we have an amendment that requires inspectors to accept listed equipment. :cool:

[ November 06, 2005, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Portable generators are not part of the building construction, so I can see that an inuse cover would not be required.

The factory provided A/C units that have the receptacle inside the unit is an interesting call??? The factory installed GFCI with a flat cover that is installed on the outside of the unit, would require an inuse cover - once the A/C unit is installed, it is a permanent part of the structure.

Of course this is just my opinion ;)
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Originally posted by pierre:
The factory installed GFCI with a flat cover that is installed on the outside of the unit, would require an inuse cover - once the A/C unit is installed, it is a permanent part of the structure.
Click to expand...
I strongly disagree it is within the inspectors authority to force this change.

They could ask me to and I probably would. :)

What the heck does it being installed have to do with anything, it would be listed for that particular use?

If an inspector requires the cover changed where would they stop having you 'repair' the listed equipment?

Say while I am changing the cover on this unit I find the factory used 14 AWG with 20 amp OCP to supply this receptacle. This is a clear violation of 240.4(D).

So now the inspector says change those to 12 AWG, when I follow them back to their origin I find they grouped together under one terminal not listed for more than one conductor. This is a very common practice in listed equipment but a clear violation of 110.14(A). Now do I 'fix' that also.

IMO, an inspector that forces me to modify a listed product is going beyond their authority.

Of course maybe they are more qualified than UL. :)

Bob
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Bob,

As I read you post I was thinking the same thing. We recently installed a large UPS system. The internal wiring had all sorts of what we would call violations, such as multiple conductors under a lug etc. I'd love to tell the manufacturer that we needed to rewire his UL listed equipment and then tell the customer that our rewiring voided the warrantee.

Changing a cover may be a small issue on a package AC unit but the question is then where will that end? Should we as installers in the field look to make changes to listed equipment?
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Thank you to all who posted in reply. Your opinions are appreciated.
Iwire, It is my opinion also that the factory assembly should be code compliant.

Justin W.
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Sounds reasonable to leave as is. If you have to start modifying original equipment to meet the NEC why would we even need a listing. You can't just choose the corrections you might want. This situation can apply to any peice of electrical equipment manufactured such as a dishwsher. Ever look uneder one of those suckers?
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

I sure hope this doesn't turn into another 50-page+ thread. I agree that we should not be required, nor should we even attempt, to modify factory assemblies.

Additionally, most HVAC technicians don't service equipment in the rain, so their tools usually aren't required to be plugged in during inclement weather.
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Had an inspector the other day tell a homeowner that his new furnace had an "illegal" set of factory installed breakers becuase the wer turned upside down and therefore they were illegal beacause they had to be up on and down off instead of the way the manufacturer installed them. 60/30 installed so that you came in the bottom and fed out the top to the controls and to the rest of the unit. These were not backwards feed or anything and they were clearly indicating of and on. He just ranted that they were illegal because they were installed as far as he was concerned upside down. Didnt write a correction however.
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Just curious. How many of you guys that say you can't nut and bolt a lug to an enclosure because it is not a listed assembly think it is necessary to change out this cover that is a listed assembly? :)

"Manufacturers test their equipment with specified parts. Using some other parts that have not been tested as being suitable (whether you like that or not, it is a fact they use in court) will lead you into problems, if there are some other problems that bring you to court - which happens to a small percentage.

There was also mention of "forensic insurance people" that will look for situations where something was modified and basically rip you a new one when they get you on the stand.

[ November 06, 2005, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Originally posted by LarryFine:
Additionally, most HVAC technicians don't service equipment in the rain, so their tools usually aren't required to be plugged in during inclement weather.
Click to expand...
Even so...it's a GFCI recept. Plug away! :D
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
I'm back. Here is an opinion on modifying listed equipment. I'll leave out the persons identification for legal reasons. :)

"Manufacturers test their equipment with specified parts......
Click to expand...
:D
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Nope. Not you Bob.

[ November 06, 2005, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

If you did take a cover off a listed piece of equipment and install another type of cover, wouldnt you in fact be voiding the UL Listing of that piece of equipment and in turn rendering it non passible by code standards? Just a thought.
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Bob
As you know,I like you, have been around this great industry for a few years :D


I am willing to bet that every person in this industry has modified equipment to suit themselves ... even legally modified equipment ... such as cutting the enclosure to install raceways. ;)

[ November 06, 2005, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Pierre I can not agree that either 110.2 and 110.3(A)(1) grants the authority to an inspector to force changes to a UL listed piece of equipment.

As I said they can ask me and I would likely comply as it is not a bad idea.

I have to say you are coming across two sided on this issue.

On the one hand you will post that UL knows all and we walk a dangerous path when we ignore UL...until there is a UL item you do not agree with then we can (should) ignore UL. :(

It is very simple, the cover on the receptacle is part of the construction of the unit and 90.7 says that need not be inspected.

JMO, Bob
 
Re: "In use covers" with GFCI receptacles for Air

Take a closer look at my last post. I am not putting blame on anyone, not even the manufacturer.

As I was trying to say, manufacturers do not always know how/where their equipment will be installed. They also try to keep their costs down, as the "bean counters" have some say in the design - especially when it comes to cost.

When they send their units out, the GFCI device is installed with the thought in mind that the unit will be installed in a location that does not require the inuse cover. (I am not even sure if this is a requirement for them, other than they are keeping up with other manufacturers - like the color of NM cable for 14, 12 and 10 AWG) If it needs the inuse cover due to location, then take the screw out and install a new cover - is that really changing a listed piece of equipment? When installing some equipment in the field, it is assumed by the manufacturer that some field modifications will occur, as they cannot account for all of the ways their equipment could or will be installed - due to field conditions. As long as the modifications do not alter the equipment too much :D :D :D
 
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