increasing conductor size
- Thread starter chas
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: increasing conductor size
To quote a smart man.
Yes you can.
To quote a smart man.
Yes you can.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: increasing conductor size
It is more like there is not a code preventing this.
Roger posted the important issue that the OCPD (breaker/fuse) is sized to the smallest conductor in the circuit.
It is common to increase the wire size for voltage drop again as Roger mentioned.
It is more like there is not a code preventing this.
Roger posted the important issue that the OCPD (breaker/fuse) is sized to the smallest conductor in the circuit.
It is common to increase the wire size for voltage drop again as Roger mentioned.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: increasing conductor size
We often use 6AWG 4AWG 3AWG for site poles for voltage drop reasons, would he expect us to us 60, 70, 100 amp breakers, most times we use 20 amp breakers for this.
[ September 26, 2003, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Well the inspector is wrong (sorry Charlie) I wonder how this inspector would handle the typical site pole wiring.
We often use 6AWG 4AWG 3AWG for site poles for voltage drop reasons, would he expect us to us 60, 70, 100 amp breakers, most times we use 20 amp breakers for this.
[ September 26, 2003, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
tonyi
Senior Member
Re: increasing conductor size
The inspector is a boob. People have to increase wire size all the time to compensate for voltage drop over distance and derating issues. Your breaker will stay at 15A though. I've run a lot of #10 on 15A branches to compensate for VD and high attic temps.
The inspector is a boob. People have to increase wire size all the time to compensate for voltage drop over distance and derating issues. Your breaker will stay at 15A though. I've run a lot of #10 on 15A branches to compensate for VD and high attic temps.
Re: increasing conductor size
Chas, we would need to follow Bob's lead and in a diplomatic way ask the inspector to cite an article and section to back his remark.
There are instances and articles that would seem to go against the grain when it comes to conductor size and OCPD, so we could go on forever here. (430 & 440 for quick mention)
It is his responsibility to tell you in formal explanation what is in violation before you could know how to defend yourself.
Roger
P.S. back to where I said we could go on forever. It's true and can be frightening.
[ September 26, 2003, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
Chas, we would need to follow Bob's lead and in a diplomatic way ask the inspector to cite an article and section to back his remark.
There are instances and articles that would seem to go against the grain when it comes to conductor size and OCPD, so we could go on forever here. (430 & 440 for quick mention)
It is his responsibility to tell you in formal explanation what is in violation before you could know how to defend yourself.
Roger
P.S. back to where I said we could go on forever. It's true and can be frightening.
[ September 26, 2003, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
Re: increasing conductor size
iwire, I don't know. the whole thing started with a simple 3-way, switch and a need for an additional switch for another entry door 3 feet away, inspectors quote,"all entry doors must have a switch for the exterior lights" so I created a 3-way,4way,3way situation using what I had on the truck (12-3)
iwire, I don't know. the whole thing started with a simple 3-way, switch and a need for an additional switch for another entry door 3 feet away, inspectors quote,"all entry doors must have a switch for the exterior lights" so I created a 3-way,4way,3way situation using what I had on the truck (12-3)
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: increasing conductor size
I suggest your inspector read 210.70. You were never required to add that switch in the first place!!!
I suggest your inspector read 210.70. You were never required to add that switch in the first place!!!
G
Guest
Guest
Re: increasing conductor size
For space reasons I never carried #14 on my service truck. Didn't carry solid wire either. THHN or NM-B it was #12 and up.
Never got gigged for using #12 in place of or to add on to #14 circuits.
For bare solid copper it was mostly #8 and #4. Never got gigged for using a #4 bare instead of at #6. I just didn't have room to carry spools of every possible combination. Even so my service truck was loaded to the gills.
[Added by edit: Is this multi-family? Does the exterior light serve more than one door? What is the setup here? You raised an interesting side issue above].
[ September 26, 2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
For space reasons I never carried #14 on my service truck. Didn't carry solid wire either. THHN or NM-B it was #12 and up.
Never got gigged for using #12 in place of or to add on to #14 circuits.
For bare solid copper it was mostly #8 and #4. Never got gigged for using a #4 bare instead of at #6. I just didn't have room to carry spools of every possible combination. Even so my service truck was loaded to the gills.
[Added by edit: Is this multi-family? Does the exterior light serve more than one door? What is the setup here? You raised an interesting side issue above].
[ September 26, 2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
frenchelectrican
Senior Member
- Location
- Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
Re: increasing conductor size
i will like to add one more thing to make it clear about conducter sizes .. now before you guys and ladies start barking at my ear ( sorry iam deaf anyway) .... now just image a water hose for a second ,, start at water source like small hose for X feet then swtich to larger hose for X feet then switch back to smaller hose the flowage will be the same .
here is the other good example i learn it longtime ago ( with engines stuff )
the rules for chains for strength is the alway the smallest link of whole length ..
ie. 1/4 inch link with 3/4 link and 1/4 inch link. now the strengh is always be 1/4 link never 3/4 link.
i hope i explain it ok if feel not right let me know
merci marc
P.S the same with tempture on conductes too ..
i will like to add one more thing to make it clear about conducter sizes .. now before you guys and ladies start barking at my ear ( sorry iam deaf anyway) .... now just image a water hose for a second ,, start at water source like small hose for X feet then swtich to larger hose for X feet then switch back to smaller hose the flowage will be the same .
here is the other good example i learn it longtime ago ( with engines stuff )
the rules for chains for strength is the alway the smallest link of whole length ..
ie. 1/4 inch link with 3/4 link and 1/4 inch link. now the strengh is always be 1/4 link never 3/4 link.
i hope i explain it ok if feel not right let me know
merci marc
P.S the same with tempture on conductes too ..
Re: increasing conductor size
The ampacity of the conductors shall not be less than the rating of the overcurrent device. There is nothing to prevent you from running a 15amp circuit in #2 wire if you so chose, aside from expense. Nowhere in the code is it stated that all conductors on a circuit be the same size, merely that the OCPD shall protect the smallest conductor, with exceptions for fixture taps, so on..
I've run plenty of #6 wire on a 20amp circuit for pumps and other rural equipment to comp for VD...anyway, your inspector is a boob.
The ampacity of the conductors shall not be less than the rating of the overcurrent device. There is nothing to prevent you from running a 15amp circuit in #2 wire if you so chose, aside from expense. Nowhere in the code is it stated that all conductors on a circuit be the same size, merely that the OCPD shall protect the smallest conductor, with exceptions for fixture taps, so on..
I've run plenty of #6 wire on a 20amp circuit for pumps and other rural equipment to comp for VD...anyway, your inspector is a boob.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: increasing conductor size
Chas
Refer to 210.19(A)FPN. No.4
This is not mandatory language, but guidance to say you may need to increase the size of the conductor to work with the voltage drop in the circuit.
As far as the NEC is concerned with switch location, in most situations it is not. The building codes do have requirements for switch locations and he may have been citing those. Ask him for a code reference, he is required with a redtag to cite a section.
I say don't give up, this will help you in the future and all who follow you.
Pierre
Chas
Refer to 210.19(A)FPN. No.4
This is not mandatory language, but guidance to say you may need to increase the size of the conductor to work with the voltage drop in the circuit.
As far as the NEC is concerned with switch location, in most situations it is not. The building codes do have requirements for switch locations and he may have been citing those. Ask him for a code reference, he is required with a redtag to cite a section.
I say don't give up, this will help you in the future and all who follow you.
Pierre
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: increasing conductor size
Do not loose sight of the fact that the Code is a permissive document. In other words if it doesn't say you can't, then you can.
Sometimes the inspector is mistaken but he is never wrong. Remember the following rules:
1 The inspector is always right
2 If the inspector is found to be wrong, rule number 1 applies
Do not loose sight of the fact that the Code is a permissive document. In other words if it doesn't say you can't, then you can.
Sometimes the inspector is mistaken but he is never wrong. Remember the following rules:
1 The inspector is always right
2 If the inspector is found to be wrong, rule number 1 applies
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