Indicating Switch Requirement for Motors

[iwire]

I got involved in a discussion on another forum about the requirements for indicating switches, 430.104 and 422.35.

A house has an attic exhaust fan and the customer wants to switch it from more than one location, my feeling is once you have provided the required indicating type disconnect at the fan itself you could use 3 or 4 way switches throughout the house.

But there have been many that feel any switch for the motor must be indicating type ruling out the use of 3 or 4 ways and control from more than one location.

I am prepared to it crow on this, I have before and will again , but I would like to get some more opinions on this.

Thanks for any help, even if it shows that I am wrong, Bob

[ July 06, 2003, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[bennie]

Re: Indicating Switch Requirement for Motors

Use illuminated switches. The light on will indicate the fan is off. The light off indicates the fan is on.

I feel this would meet the intent of 430.104

 

[iwire]

Re: Indicating Switch Requirement for Motors

Thanks for the reply Bennie

430.104 certainly requires indicating switches for the disconnect but I feel the other switches would be controllers and in the section of 430 that deals with controllers 430.81 through 430.91 there is no requirement for indicating switches.

Bob

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Indicating Switch Requirement for Motors

In my opinion, a 3 way switch, does not meet the Article 100 definition of a "means of disconnect". Even if it is made to be "indicating" by the use of a pilot light, I would not accept it as a disconnect because there is no way to prevent the remote 3-way switch from being used to turn the power back on while the fan is being serviced. The only reason for a disconnect at a piece of equipment is to provide protection for the person servicing the equipment. A set of 3-ways does not provide this protection.
Don

 

[bennie]

Re: Indicating Switch Requirement for Motors

Don: I agree you are correct. I was focused on the words "indicating" as in status, rather than a positive disconnect.

 

[iwire]

Re: Indicating Switch Requirement for Motors

Don do you feel the same way if you have the proper disconect at the fan in addition to the 3 ways?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Indicating Switch Requirement for Motors

Bob,
If you have a single throw disconnect at the fan, then you can safely work on the fan as the disconnect is under the complete control of the worker and provides a positive disconnect. The only problem that comes is that the 3-way switches become motor "controllers" and 430.102(A) requires an "insight" disconnect for a motor controller.
Don

 

[iwire]

Re: Indicating Switch Requirement for Motors

OK, I will admit I was/or am wrong.

Is there a practical and code compliant way to switch a fan in a house from more than one spot?


Say a fan in a bathroom that has two entrances.

 

[gwz2]

Re: Indicating Switch Requirement for Motors

Wouldn't the use of a three way switch be considered a controller ? Just add a single pole switch, if a 120V motor, along side of the first 3 way in the circuit and so label it as the disconnecting means (430.104), that way that single pole disconnect will also control the controller. Also add the switch required by 430.102(B).

also add double pole disconnect ahead of the 2nd 3way switch (controller).

Let's just forget the three ways and go to remote start/stop pushbuttons and a magnetic controller.

 

[bennie]

Re: Indicating Switch Requirement for Motors

Put a locking device on the breaker and switch it anywhere.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Indicating Switch Requirement for Motors

Bennie,
Under the '99 code a remote lockable disconnect would have been permitted for this application, now under the '02 code a remote lockable disconnet is only permitted in industrial occupancies or where a local disconnect would be impracticable or introduces additional or increased hazards to persons or property.