Inline splice with downstream 14/2 conductor polarity reversal

LSStream

Member
Location
Bucks County, PA
Occupation
Engineer
I was replacing a single pole rocker switch fed by 14/2 NM-B in a single gang box (herein "switch box") with a Lutron RadioRA3 SP switch (for a dining room ceiling fixture) and I discovered current on the grounded conductors ("neutral" or "white" wires). I initially suspected an open upstream neutral, but some basic troubleshooting revealed that there was polarity reversal of the line grounded/neutral/white and the ungrounded/hot/black conductors. I located the next upstream device (living room duplex receptacle in single gang box, herein "duplex box"), which had correct polarity (confirmed after separating all conductors in this box from the device). I then confirmed that there was continuity between the white conductor in the duplex box and the black conductor in the switch box and vice versa. BTW, the switch box is the last device on the run.

There is no intervening device or junction box that I am aware of (and I have all circuits well mapped out from original construction), but I do recall that during a major kitchen renovation about 6 months ago, the electrical contractor for the job told me he was going to use a UL listed inline NM-B splice (not sure if Tyco/TE or NSI), since a couple devices on that circuit were being eliminated and this would simplify wiring (presumably splicing the load NM-B cable from the duplex box to the line NM-B cable of the switch box. I never personally used these devices, but was aware of them, and didn't see an issue, so I said ok. I discussed by findings with him and asked if polarity reversal was possible with this device (i.e., if wired incorrectly), and he said it's impossible to wire these wrong. Of course, I see no other potential culprit and I maintain that this device is the source of the reversal. Not having direct experience with these inline NM-B splicers, can anyone weigh in on the possibility of mis-wiring them, perhaps if done by one of the less experienced crew members?

Normally, I would just run a new NM-B from the duplex box to the switch box and bypass the spliced cables. However, wall access is not feasible (expensive custom painted artistic walls in the dining and living rooms, brand new kitchen, etc.) and basement access might not be great because the switch box is in an HVAC return stud bay, which precludes vertical runs of NM-B from the basement and box is also walled off with Thermopan.

So... is it acceptable to merely tape the switch box white conductor with black tape (to indicate an ungrounded conductor) AND the switch box black conductor with white tape (to indicate a grounded conductor)? If not, what else might I consider? Thanks.
 
The switch box has only a feed cable and a load cable to the light fixture. The upstream duplex box has a feed, and two downstream cables - one to the switch box and the other to another receptacle. But I disconnected ALL cables from all devices in both boxes, thereby isolating each cable and its conductors. So, I don't believe this is a switch loop.
 
The switch box has only a feed cable and a load cable to the light fixture. The upstream duplex box has a feed, and two downstream cables - one to the switch box and the other to another receptacle. But I disconnected ALL cables from all devices in both boxes, thereby isolating each cable and its conductors. So, I don't believe this is a switch loop.
Were the two white conductors tied together in the switch box?
 
Yes, they were. It was when taking off the wire nut to attach a neutral pigtail for the new Lutron dimmer that it first became apparent that they were hot.
Sounds like there was a load on the neutral and the spark you saw was the returning current/voltage from that load. You should have had the breaker off when changing the switch.
 
I was replacing a single pole rocker switch fed by 14/2 NM-B in a single gang box (herein "switch box") with a Lutron RadioRA3 SP switch (for a dining room ceiling fixture) and I discovered current on the grounded conductors ("neutral" or "white" wires). I initially suspected an open upstream neutral, but some basic troubleshooting revealed that there was polarity reversal of the line grounded/neutral/white and the ungrounded/hot/black conductors. I located the next upstream device (living room duplex receptacle in single gang box, herein "duplex box"), which had correct polarity (confirmed after separating all conductors in this box from the device). I then confirmed that there was continuity between the white conductor in the duplex box and the black conductor in the switch box and vice versa. BTW, the switch box is the last device on the run.

There is no intervening device or junction box that I am aware of (and I have all circuits well mapped out from original construction), but I do recall that during a major kitchen renovation about 6 months ago, the electrical contractor for the job told me he was going to use a UL listed inline NM-B splice (not sure if Tyco/TE or NSI), since a couple devices on that circuit were being eliminated and this would simplify wiring (presumably splicing the load NM-B cable from the duplex box to the line NM-B cable of the switch box. I never personally used these devices, but was aware of them, and didn't see an issue, so I said ok. I discussed by findings with him and asked if polarity reversal was possible with this device (i.e., if wired incorrectly), and he said it's impossible to wire these wrong. Of course, I see no other potential culprit and I maintain that this device is the source of the reversal. Not having direct experience with these inline NM-B splicers, can anyone weigh in on the possibility of mis-wiring them, perhaps if done by one of the less experienced crew members?

Normally, I would just run a new NM-B from the duplex box to the switch box and bypass the spliced cables. However, wall access is not feasible (expensive custom painted artistic walls in the dining and living rooms, brand new kitchen, etc.) and basement access might not be great because the switch box is in an HVAC return stud bay, which precludes vertical runs of NM-B from the basement and box is also walled off with Thermopan.

So... is it acceptable to merely tape the switch box white conductor with black tape (to indicate an ungrounded conductor) AND the switch box black conductor with white tape (to indicate a grounded conductor)? If not, what else might I consider? Thanks.
Why do you sound like a lawyer? :)
 
Sounds like there was a load on the neutral and the spark you saw was the returning current/voltage from that load. You should have had the breaker off when changing the switch.
Except the switch was in the off position and the “neutral” white conductor still had 120 volts on it - because the white/black conductors were reversed. The black conductor had no voltage and was in continuity with ground. And agree, the breaker should have been turned off first.
 
Last edited:
Seems you discovered the problem, white and black wires had polarity swap at a device box, this will cause the white to be "hot" and the black to be "grounded" beyond that point. White is code for designating grounded conductor but physical connection to ungrounded (whether allowed or not by code) does not make it change color and all the physics involved with conductivity and current flow still apply. Was there some other question here?
 
To summarize:

(1) a black/white polarity reversal occurred due to an improper inline splice created during a renovation project
(2) this spice is not easily accessible, nor is the affected downstream switch box

Questions:

(1) have you ever seen/heard of a reversal due to an improper spice (the electrical contractor says it's "impossible")
(2) would you be comfortable merely marking the downstream reversed conductors with black and white tape (5 minutes) or would you try to bypass the spice with new NM-B with much greater time and effort required (90-120 minutes plus drywall work and custom artsy painting)
 
(1) have you ever seen/heard of a reversal due to an improper spice (the electrical contractor says it's "impossible")
Not true.

There is a lot of things I claim I could probably connect blindfolded simply because I've done so many times over the years.

Occasionally I still make a mistake doing those tasks. Often I will catch it before completed, sometimes I find out afterward when testing things for proper functionality.
 
(1) a black/white polarity reversal occurred due to an improper inline splice created during a renovation project
I missed that this was an inline splice, thought it was reversed at a receptacle box.

Chances are not easy to access therefore the reason it was an inline splice in the first place. I'd probably use tape or other identification on the end that is wrong at this point if not easy to access or replace.
 
Not true.

There is a lot of things I claim I could probably connect blindfolded simply because I've done so many times over the years.

Occasionally I still make a mistake doing those tasks. Often I will catch it before completed, sometimes I find out afterward when testing things for proper functionality.
Agreed. Interesting that this issue was only discovered incidentally when changing out the switch (without shutting off the breaker) and realizing there was current/voltage on the white conductor. The light switch worked as expected, even though it was effectively on the neutral/grounded, rather than the hot/ungrounded leg. I have wired it appropriately now and marked the conductors with tape accordingly.
 
Agreed. Interesting that this issue was only discovered incidentally when changing out the switch (without shutting off the breaker) and realizing there was current/voltage on the white conductor. The light switch worked as expected, even though it was effectively on the neutral/grounded, rather than the hot/ungrounded leg. I have wired it appropriately now and marked the conductors with tape accordingly.
Polarity doesn't impact operation of this. It does make it a little safer if there is Edison base lamp holder to have the grounded conductor connected to the shell of the lamp holder is really about the only reason for polarity requirements for such an application.
 
Except the switch was in the off position and the “neutral” white conductor still had 120 volts on it - because the white/black conductors were reversed. The black conductor had no voltage and was in continuity with ground. And agree, the breaker should have been turned off first.
If you're working ON THE SWITCH, how does having the switch off protect you in any way?
 
Top