Inspect this UL 508A panel !

[fdawg]

Hello Guys,

Im new to this forum and looking for some help. We are not a UL shop. We recently got a contract to build a UL 508a control panel.

• All of my components are UL listed.
• 120ac/24dcv system
• 14ga mtw for AC
• 16ga mtw for DC
• Both of my GFCI Receptacles are protected by 5amp breakers
• All of my digital inputs,analog inputs, analog outputs are fused with 50ma 250v fast acting fuses
• All of my digital outputs are fused with 2a 250v fast acting fuses
• Wire color +24VDC (ORG) -24VDC (GREY) Signal wire (BLUE)

Is ok to have green terminal for Ground or do they have to be bicolor green/yellow?
Do my ethernet cable have to be UL Listed? rated for 600v?
Do i need a SCCR rating label on this panel?
Do i need FLA label on this panel?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is what the code states . The green wire is fine as a ground assuming you mean equipment ground and not neutral..

(C) Conductors of Different Systems.
(1) 600 Volts, Nominal, or Less. Conductors of ac and dc
circuits, rated 600 volts, nominal, or less, shall be permitted
to occupy the same equipment wiring enclosure, cable, or
raceway. All conductors shall have an insulation rating
equal to at least the maximum circuit voltage applied to any
conductor within the enclosure, cable, or raceway.
Informational Note No. 1: See 725.136(A) for Class 2 and
Class 3 circuit conductors.
Informational Note No. 2: See 690.4(B) for photovoltaic
source and output circuits.

725.136 Separation from Electric Light, Power, Class 1,
Non–Power-Limited Fire Alarm Circuit Conductors, and
Medium-Power Network-Powered Broadband Communications
Cables.
(A) General. Cables and conductors of Class 2 and Class 3
circuits shall not be placed in any cable, cable tray, compartment,
enclosure, manhole, outlet box, device box, raceway,
or similar fitting with conductors of electric light,
power, Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm circuits, and
medium-power network-powered broadband communications
circuits unless permitted by 725.136(B) through (I).
(B) Separated by Barriers. Class 2 and Class 3 circuits
shall be permitted to be installed together with the conductors
of electric light, power, Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm
and medium power network-powered broadband communications
circuits where they are separated by a barrier.
(C) Raceways Within Enclosures. In enclosures, Class 2
and Class 3 circuits shall be permitted to be installed in a
raceway to separate them from Class 1, non–power-limited
fire alarm and medium-power network-powered broadband
communications circuits.
(D) Associated Systems Within Enclosures. Class 2 and
Class 3 circuit conductors in compartments, enclosures, device
boxes, outlet boxes, or similar fittings shall be permitted to be
installed with electric light, power, Class 1, non–powerlimited
fire alarm, and medium-power network-powered
broadband communications circuits where they are introduced
solely to connect the equipment connected to Class 2 and
Class 3 circuits, and where (1) or (2) applies:
(1) The electric light, power, Class 1, non–power-limited fire
alarm, and medium-power network-powered broadband
communications circuit conductors are routed to maintain
a minimum of 6 mm (0.25 in.) separation from the conductors
and cables of Class 2 and Class 3 circuits.
(2) The circuit conductors operate at 150 volts or less to
ground and also comply with one of the following:
a. The Class 2 and Class 3 circuits are installed using
Type CL3, CL3R, or CL3P or permitted substitute
cables, provided these Class 3 cable conductors extending
beyond the jacket are separated by a minimum
of 6 mm (0.25 in.) or by a nonconductive sleeve or
nonconductive barrier from all other conductors.
b. The Class 2 and Class 3 circuit conductors are installed
as a Class 1 circuit in accordance with 725.41.

 

[jim dungar]

Are you building the panel to UL508A specifications only, or are you planning to pass it off as an actual 'listed panel'?


The UL 508A color code is:
AC at Line Voltage = Black
DC at Line Voltage = Black
AC at Control Voltage = Red
DC at Control Voltage = Blue
AC Grounded conductor (e.g. neutral) = White, colored marking striping is optional
DC Grounded conductor = White, colored marking striping is optional
Grounding conductor = Green, yellow marking stripe is optional
Conductor fed from external voltage source = yellow (NFPA 79 is now using orange for this function)

Color code is only applicable inside the panel, the NEC and other local codes apply to external (field) wiring.

 

[fdawg]

Are you building the panel to UL508A specifications only, or are you planning to pass it off as an actual 'listed panel'?


The UL 508A color code is:
AC at Line Voltage = Black
DC at Line Voltage = Black
AC at Control Voltage = Red
DC at Control Voltage = Blue
AC Grounded conductor (e.g. neutral) = White, colored marking striping is optional
DC Grounded conductor = White, colored marking striping is optional
Grounding conductor = Green, yellow marking stripe is optional
Conductor fed from external voltage source = yellow (NFPA 79 is now using orange for this function)

Color code is only applicable inside the panel, the NEC and other local codes apply to external (field) wiring.

This panel needs to be inspected by a UL rep... Is this color code in the 508a standard? if so, what section?

 

[jim dungar]

This panel needs to be inspected by a UL rep... Is this color code in the 508a standard? if so, what section?

Do you own a copy of the standard? There are some general rules and some specific rules, depending on the final use of the panel.

What do you mean by "inspected by a UL rep", are you trying to get a UL Label after the panel has already been built by a non-UL 508A facility? Was this discussed with UL ahead of time?

 

[Aleman]

Are you building the panel to UL508A specifications only, or are you planning to pass it off as an actual 'listed panel'?


The UL 508A color code is:
AC at Line Voltage = Black
DC at Line Voltage = Black
AC at Control Voltage = Red
DC at Control Voltage = Blue
AC Grounded conductor (e.g. neutral) = White, colored marking striping is optional
DC Grounded conductor = White, colored marking striping is optional
Grounding conductor = Green, yellow marking stripe is optional
Conductor fed from external voltage source = yellow (NFPA 79 is now using orange for this function)

Color code is only applicable inside the panel, the NEC and other local codes apply to external (field) wiring.

Looks good except the dc ground which is white with blue stripe according to what I have been taught. I didn't think the stripe was optional. I could be wrong.

To the orig poster, your panel won't pass on color code alone which is a bummer because the panel looks good and I know was a lot of work. Otherwise, all components must be UL approved and the panel must have a short circuit current rating which will depend on your components. Google 'UL 508A color code' and you will see an Eaton PDF on UL control panel design. Which of course if a sales shill but still has some good info.

 

[jim dungar]

Looks good except the dc ground which is white with blue stripe according to what I have been taught.

White with blue stripe is extremely common, but it is optional.Many people incorrectly assume this is the color for the DC Negative, but it is not.
A DC system with the Positive grounded should have the 'white wire' on the + terminal and the 'blue wire' on the - terminal.

 

[petersonra]

Hello Guys,

Im new to this forum and looking for some help. We are not a UL shop. We recently got a contract to build a UL 508a control panel.

If you are not a UL508a shop you cannot build a UL508a panel. You can pay the insane expense to have Ul send a guy out to put a label on it.

All of my components are UL listed.

There is a section of UL508a that lists acceptable components. Just because something is listed does not mean you can put it in a UL508a panel. BTW, as far as I know there are no listed terminals. Only recognized ones. The standard allows you to use terminals that are recognized under a particular UL standard.

120ac/24dcv system
14ga mtw for AC
16ga mtw for DC
Both of my GFCI Receptacles are protected by 5amp breakers
All of my digital inputs,analog inputs, analog outputs are fused with 50ma 250v fast acting fuses
All of my digital outputs are fused with 2a 250v fast acting fuses

OK. But not necessarily required.

Wire color +24VDC (ORG) -24VDC (GREY) Signal wire (BLUE)

You have to use the wire color code that is in the standard.

Is ok to have green terminal for Ground or do they have to be bicolor green/yellow?

Ground terminals have to be marked. there are various ways you are allowed to do this that are mentioned in the standard. Color coding is one of the ways allowed.

Do my ethernet cable have to be UL Listed? rated for 600v?

Listed - yes. 600V - not unless you run them with 480V wiring. I am not even sure I have ever seen cat5 cable with 600V insulation. Just seperate it from the 480V wiring if it is not 600V insulation.

Do i need a SCCR rating label on this panel?
Do i need FLA label on this panel?

The standard requires a number of markings be applied. These are two of the things that are required. There are others also required to be marked.

 

[Cmdr_Suds]

The color code listed above is under section 66.9.1 and technically it only applies to a control panels for industrial machinery under part 2, Special use industrial control panels. If this panel is not being used to control industrial machinery, then it doesn't apply. But it is good wiring practice.

Another big item in the UL508A standard is the Labeling. Study the standard carefully.

This panel appears to be a control only type of panel. Good luck on trying to find the SCCR on many of those parts. As one UL guy said to me, "when in doubt, 5K it out". I feel this is an area that needs to clarified in the code and the UL508A standard

 

[petersonra]

The color code listed above is under section 66.9.1 and technically it only applies to a control panels for industrial machinery under part 2, Special use industrial control panels. If this panel is not being used to control industrial machinery, then it doesn't apply. But it is good wiring practice.

Another big item in the UL508A standard is the Labeling. Study the standard carefully.

This panel appears to be a control only type of panel. Good luck on trying to find the SCCR on many of those parts. As one UL guy said to me, "when in doubt, 5K it out". I feel this is an area that needs to clarified in the code and the UL508A standard

From looking at it, most likely the SCCR portion of the label would say N/A if it was my design. I don't see any power circuits there, so no SCCR can be calculated.

 

[fdawg]

Looks good except the dc ground which is white with blue stripe according to what I have been taught. I didn't think the stripe was optional. I could be wrong.

To the orig poster, your panel won't pass on color code alone which is a bummer because the panel looks good and I know was a lot of work. Otherwise, all components must be UL approved and the panel must have a short circuit current rating which will depend on your components. Google 'UL 508A color code' and you will see an Eaton PDF on UL control panel design. Which of course if a sales shill but still has some good info.

I'm not worried about 508a sec. 66.9 color code, i dont believe it applies to my control panel. Its not going to be used for machinery.
This control panel is going to be used for a water booster station.

 

[BPoindexter]

UL, ETL, TUV.... there are a number of NRTL's which can give you a field listing. Personally I like dealing with ETL. Just be prepared to make any corrections they might flag. As far as unlisted components such as a touchscreen etc- usually they are allowed if powered via a UL listed isolation transformer (ie control power transformer inside the panel).

 

[Cmdr_Suds]

From looking at it, most likely the SCCR portion of the label would say N/A if it was my design. I don't see any power circuits there, so no SCCR can be calculated.

The N/A for the SCCR only makes sense for a control only type panel. My reading of the standard doesn't appear to allow an exception for such a panel. Thats what I meant when I said I felt it was a grey area. If you have anything that says N/A is acceptable, I would love to see it. I always feel silly putting a SCCR on a control-only panel being feed by a single phase, 20A branch circuit.