Inspection and UL Listing

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Jodonnell

Member
I had an inspection yesterday at a facility that we added some new 208 volt and 480 volt circuits. All my permit was for was to install power to the disconnects. After workign at the facility the owner wanted us to hook up his equipment, so I did not get an inspection when we were completed with my contract work. I got an email for the owner stating that the check is in the mail and he did not have the funds to pay us to hook up the equipment. He was going to take care of this on his own. So I called for my final inspection. When the inspector came out to the job site for the inspeciton he failed my inspection because equipment was hooked up and not on the permit. He also failed it since the owners equipment is not UL listed. The owner has just moved his facility from one location to another. The equipment is 10-15 years old and in good shape. He has an air compressor a dust collector and a few other pieces of equipment that he uses to test other equipment. He says that the company that he bought the equipment from is no longer in business and he can not get UL listing for these. He says there is roughly $500,000 in equipment and he can not go out and buy new equipment. So I have two questons.

1. Can an inspector fail my inspection for work that others completed that was not on my permit but connects to equipment that was installed on my permit?

2. What can be done about UL listing of equipment that has been in the owners name for 10-15 years and all he as done is switch locations?

Thanks Jim
 

Hendrix

Senior Member
Location
New England
I had an inspection yesterday at a facility that we added some new 208 volt and 480 volt circuits. All my permit was for was to install power to the disconnects. After workign at the facility the owner wanted us to hook up his equipment, so I did not get an inspection when we were completed with my contract work. I got an email for the owner stating that the check is in the mail and he did not have the funds to pay us to hook up the equipment. He was going to take care of this on his own. So I called for my final inspection. When the inspector came out to the job site for the inspeciton he failed my inspection because equipment was hooked up and not on the permit. He also failed it since the owners equipment is not UL listed. The owner has just moved his facility from one location to another. The equipment is 10-15 years old and in good shape. He has an air compressor a dust collector and a few other pieces of equipment that he uses to test other equipment. He says that the company that he bought the equipment from is no longer in business and he can not get UL listing for these. He says there is roughly $500,000 in equipment and he can not go out and buy new equipment. So I have two questons.

1. Can an inspector fail my inspection for work that others completed that was not on my permit but connects to equipment that was installed on my permit?

2. What can be done about UL listing of equipment that has been in the owners name for 10-15 years and all he as done is switch locations?

Thanks Jim
1. probably
2. see if you can get a listing by SGS U.S. testing Company.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
In most of the areas with which I am familiar, the inspector holds you responsible for what YOU install. In the situation you describe, any rejections, etc wold be issued to the owner in there was no other know E/C. That may not be true in all areas, of course.
Also most jurisdictions I have worked with have set up procedures for "used" equipment such as this. I would ask the inspector if you or the owner and he could discus it with someone higher up the food chain.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
1. Here we do not allow you to pull a permit to just install disconnects.
2. It doesn't have to be U.L. listed, it could be ETL, MET, TUV, if your AHJ accepts these.
 

mcclary's electrical

Senior Member
Location
VA
unhook everything from your disconnects,,,,,charge him time and material to do this an call for reinspection. throw a tarp over all equipment that is there. You'renot responsible for what he hooks up when you leave.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
unhook everything from your disconnects,,,,,charge him time and material to do this an call for reinspection. throw a tarp over all equipment that is there. You'renot responsible for what he hooks up when you leave.
Rule #10 of the contactors handbook: Even if your inspector is an idiot, please don't treat him like one.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
1. Can an inspector fail my inspection for work that others completed that was not on my permit but connects to equipment that was installed on my permit?
Well, obviously, yes, but I'd look at this like the inspector is looking out for your best interests. Had he passed what he saw, you could arguably be held responsible for the entire installation in the future.

I would call the customer and ask him to let you know when everything has been returned to the state it was in when you left, so you can call for a reinspection. It's his baby, especially since you're getting paid.

2. What can be done about UL listing of equipment that has been in the owners name for 10-15 years and all he as done is switch locations?

See my response to your first question, especially the last sentence.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
unhook everything from your disconnects,,,,,charge him time and material to do this an call for reinspection.
That's an option, but make sure you get paid (both times.)

throw a tarp over all equipment that is there. You'renot responsible for what he hooks up when you leave.
I wouldn't even suggest that. "But, he said I should!"
 

mcclary's electrical

Senior Member
Location
VA
I'm not implying to treat your inspector like he;s an idiot,,,I'm just saying the only thing on his permit is the disconnects,,,I have an example,,,,I do work for a ground water remediation company. I set up services for them wherever they plan on putting one of their trailers. The trailers consist of vacuum pumps, reem pumps, vein pumps and an air compressor, and lots of controls. Whenever I do my service, I set a meter and fused disconnect. That's it,,,,,I cannot be held responsible if something in their trailer is not up to code,,,,nor can the county inspect EVERYONE of their trailers,,,because at the time of inspection the trailer is not hooked to the service. After inspection,,,they set trailer and connect via liquatite and kellums grip. If his equipment is out of sight,,,,his inspection cannot be failed.
 
If his equipment is out of sight,,,,his inspection cannot be failed.



Of course depending that the work installed is compliant. ;)



Communications is paramount.
When the contractor communicates with the inspector what is occurring on the job, it is easy for the inspector to properly deal with the situation.
If an EC tells me he installed the disconnect, but someone else has completed the other work, my first question is to the property owner.

If the EC does not want to say anything to protect his relationship with the property owner, then I will deal with the EC, as I do not have enough information or time to figure out what is happening.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
I'm not implying to treat your inspector like he;s an idiot,,,I'm just saying the only thing on his permit is the disconnects,,,I have an example,,,,I do work for a ground water remediation company. I set up services for them wherever they plan on putting one of their trailers. The trailers consist of vacuum pumps, reem pumps, vein pumps and an air compressor, and lots of controls. Whenever I do my service, I set a meter and fused disconnect. That's it,,,,,I cannot be held responsible if something in their trailer is not up to code,,,,nor can the county inspect EVERYONE of their trailers,,,because at the time of inspection the trailer is not hooked to the service. After inspection,,,they set trailer and connect via liquatite and kellums grip. If his equipment is out of sight,,,,his inspection cannot be failed.
The real point I was trying to make is, now that the inspector has seen all of the equipment hooked up, simply unhooking it is not going to solve the problem. Again that's why we don't allow disconnect only permits, how did you size the wires and the disconnects? Are you sure the panel will handle the load? Is the equipment listed? Lots of questions can get answered at plan check.
 

LJSMITH1

Senior Member
Location
Stratford, CT
Was the equipment listed when it was new? If so, and nothing has been modified (that you can see), the listing should still be in effect.

The AHJ has final authority to approve an installation. If they see something that might raise a question of electrical safety with some of this equipment that you are connecting (i.e. missing contactor covers, removed thermal fuses, panel switches that look like they are not OEM or appropriate for the application, etc.). The only way the inspector may feel comfortable signing off on an installation of this equipment is to have a 3rd party (like UL or ETL) come in and perform the required tests/evaluations to insure the electrical safety of that particular equipment.
 

Jodonnell

Member
Thank you all. When I spoke with the inspector he told me to disconnect everything and call for a new inspection. He says he does not care what happens when he is gone. I dont know if that is good attitude, but it will get me paid
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Thank you all. When I spoke with the inspector he told me to disconnect everything and call for a new inspection. He says he does not care what happens when he is gone. I dont know if that is good attitude, but it will get me paid
You are lucky to have this inspector. He is giving you a way to save your self and him from liability. He knows what will happen but if you follow his advice everything is fine.
Most inspectors would not bend this far because they know what will happen next. You owe that inspector a thanks
 

Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
You are lucky to have this inspector. He is giving you a way to save your self and him from liability. He knows what will happen but if you follow his advice everything is fine.
Most inspectors would not bend this far because they know what will happen next. You owe that inspector a thanks
I second this.



You are one lucky guy!
 
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