Inspection Process

[iblittljn]

I would be interested to know about inspection & inspection philosophies. ie how are they conducted.

I have read some posts where the inspector always requires more than "The Book" says - more safe.

It is said the NEC as an installation manual and is a minimum standard. Others say it is exclusive. Some say the NEC addresses what can be done and what can't be done. If it ain't addressed, any way that is safe is OK.

Some say the code says 1 thing 3 ways in four different places.

There are some members here that have done this stuff for 25 years (inspection and installations). That's a bunch of code changes.

So when an inspector shows up on site what does he look for or do? What does he base his decisions on? How does he keep it all straight? Do jusidictions have checklists?

Ian

 

[petersonra]

Re: Inspection Process

my take is from the cynic's POV.

My guess is that most inspectors go out and look around to see if the installation "looks" right. If there is nothing obvious that is seriously wrong, they look for something minor to put in their report, just so the EC knows the inspector is actually doing something.

If they find a lot of minor things, or somethign seriously wrong, they probably start looking a lot closer at the whole thing.

But that is just a guess.

I would alos guess that if they do not have an actual physical checklist they have a virtual one in their head.

 

[derf48]

Re: Inspection Process

How busy is the inspector? I personally relied on the integrity of the contractor more than anything else. His history , track record, says volumes on what to expect before ever stepping foot on site.

As for an actual inspection, life safety items are first priority. Service, location and overcurrent protection, grounding and bonding, GFCI protection, etc. Workmanship is important, but only to a point. A eye appealing job can hide serious violations!

If you are just starting out in an area, and are looking for a contractor to work with, interview him. Try to find out his attitude on neat and workman like, safety, inspections, inspectors, etc. By listening to him you will learn a lot. Most inspectors are employed by the govwerment and therefore can not give a opinion as to quality of contractors.

Fred

 

[growler]

Re: Inspection Process

Many people think that the inspection process is all that's important. I don't, it's a cursory inspection at best. I'm not trying to say that the inspectors don't try to catch all the code violations but the time allowed to inspect a structure is not sufficient to see everything. It's the contractors responsibility to make sure that all work is Code compliant. Even if the inspection is passed it does not relieve the contractor of any responsibility or liability. I think that inspections are important to weed out the more blatant violations and even to provide an incentive for contractors to do better ( everyone is on their best behavior when being watched ). What I'm trying to say is that just getting past the inspection process should not be the goal of a competent contractor or engineer. The minimum standard is just that " minimum ". If a certain jurisdiction wants a higher standard I don't complain so long as they hold everyone to that standard ( an amendment). The playing field is level.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Inspection Process

Most inspections are a spot check at best. Each inspector has their own routine and specific things they look for and at during the walk through. My jurisdiction averages around 75-100 inspections a day. This is broken up between three inspectors over an area of 102 square miles. So in some cases, an inspection may need to be made 25 minutes away from the building department. When its all said and done, you only have about 5 minutes per a typical single family dwelling. On some of our large commerical jobs, we will double or even triple up to get in and out as fast as possible.

Bob is pretty accurate on his guess that if it looks good it gets looked over faster and not to indepth. However, once one problem is found, you tend to start looking harder for another.

When its all said and done, we follow a pretty simple formula. If it is a life safety issue that is violated, the job will be failed. If there is a problem on the rough that can be checked on the final, we will let it pass with an advisory. If the job is not 100% on the final it will not pass. If you are on the job and make the repairs on the spot or promise to that day, we will let it go.

And whether you believe it or not, reinspect fees do not pay our salaries or fund the building department. Thats what the permit, tax, and impact fees are for.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Inspection Process

I wouldn't work for a city that only gave you that much time

I think that is a disgrace.

I would be in the face of the city council, wondering why I am paying permit fees for this type of inspection.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Inspection Process

"And whether you believe it or not, reinspect fees do not pay our salaries or fund the building department. Thats what the permit, tax, and impact fees are for.

--------------------
Bryan Holland
Electrical Council of Florida
City of North Port Electrical Inspector"

Then exactly were does that extra money go ?

But it is nice to see an inspector willing to admit that he has only a few minutes ti inspect a building.I got blasted when i said that many months ago.It is one of the reason i would not want the job of inspector.You might be trying to inspect 100 man hours of work in 5 minutes.No possable way this can be done so fast.30 some inspection per inspector in 8 hours = 15 minutes each minus travel time and book work as well as answering cell phone as to why did you flunk me.You have a tough job.

 

[augie47]

Re: Inspection Process

I pretty much follow Fred's (derf48) road. Life safety stuff checked fairly thoroughly. Beyond that, a combination of spot checks and the history with the contractor/electrician. Problems in either case warrant a more detailed inspection.
No specific time set...stay until I',m confident, to the best of my abiility, the job is code compliant.
I think I'm in a minority, but I do use a check list on most jobs of any size. (I'm old, I forget to check some things without it)

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Inspection Process

Originally posted by jimwalker:


Then exactly were does that extra money go ?

That goes into our "education" fund.

In all reality, its not as bad as it sounds. Your really don't need all that much time for a typical home in this area. We do have a hosipital, a few schools, and a home depot and walmart going up, but those inspections can take much longer, except that we request partial inspections of select areas to keep the total amount of time on site to a minimum.

You have to understand what it is like in an area of exponential growth. People not familiar with south Florida or other areas of the nation that are exploding can't imagine a 5,000 home gated communities completed in one year. It typical takes less than 9 months to see a lot go from woods and forest to a complete home. By the time the city commissioners approve a new inspector, 2 more are really needed. Thats the way it goes.

So to be honest, I can't imagine having to spend more than 5 or 10 minutes in a single family home for an inspection. Its the job of the contractor to provide a perfect job to their customer, it is my job to keep them on their toes and to tighten them up when things get sloppy or out of compliance.

But my situation is unique, not only do I inspect the contractors work, but I provide them courses for their CEU's, and give clasess to their apprentice employees. So in a way, I can train the students to be good electricians, I refresh the contractors knowledge of the code, and then I check to see if they are remembering what they learn by following them in the field. Its a very satisfying career!

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Inspection Process

" It typical takes less than 9 months to see a lot go from woods and forest to a complete home"

There kinda slow then,i had a GC that did it in 10 weeks in Naples.Break ground and hand over key in 10 weeks.I rough house and tell buyer i will be back in exactly 4 weeks to trim it.Did about 80 of them and we only fell of shedule once do to carpenters rained out

[ August 18, 2005, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Inspection Process

I believe it. We have a couple of builders that can get a single house from nothing to done in about 4 months, but not too often. In many cases, the permitting time takes longer than the building time!

 

[mvannevel]

Re: Inspection Process

My county is 834 square miles. Only half of that is covered in the course of a day. We keep the inspections to about 8 per day, so if my assistant is working that day, we get 16 in. Quality, not quantity I like to say. As others have said, you tend to get a feel for certain contractors and who has to be watched closely and who doesn't. We get lots of homeowner permits, and those inspections take a long time.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Inspection Process

I think buyers would rather pay a bit more and get an inspection that was backed up or at least honest attempt.That would take an hour.

 

[physis]

Re: Inspection Process

My jurisdiction averages around 75-100 inspections a day. This is broken up between three inspectors over an area of 102 square miles. So in some cases, an inspection may need to be made 25 minutes away from the building department. When its all said and done, you only have about 5 minutes per a typical single family dwelling. On some of our large commerical jobs, we will double or even triple up to get in and out as fast as possible.

Wow Bryan. I don't care how much candy coating ya put on it. I don't see how it's anywhere near possible to do an effective job under those conditions. I guess you do only need 5 minutes to inspect a house, cause that's really close to all you have.

 

[tshea]

Re: Inspection Process

Had an inspection last week...inspector looked, said ok, and left. Homeowner called and asked if that was routine. Unfortunately it is in that muni. BUT, the inspector knows our work! If something doesn't look right he would call and I would have to meet him on jobsite.
In another muni, the old inspector used to open jboxes, break screws on LBs, (re)tighten all the breaker screws and then red tag it. I challenged him to meet me on an inspection and both of us would walk through. After two of those he started to really see our work and backed way down. Then he pulled a fast one..he wanted a load calc on a 2-family res. A little glitz and glitter on the calc sheet and he finally saw we knew what we were doing.

 

[paul]

Re: Inspection Process

After several inspections, you learn what each inspector looks for. For example, in a local city, one inspector goes around and checks to see if all your connectors are tight. And I mean he checks every one. If he finds two or more loose, he then goes on the war path looking for other stuff. Don't get me wrong, he actually is a great inspector, but that's his pet peave. In another jurisdiction, an inspector I know looks for grounding. He once told me that there are the three most important parts of wiring up a job. 1. grounding 2. grounding and 3. grounding. Well guess what I make sure is done properly when I'm in his area? Yep, grounding. Not that I don't do jobs to code everywhere, I just make damned sure I get the locak AHJ's pet peaves covered.

Another tactic, talk to the AHJ about fishing or hunting or whatever he likes...that always distracts them from what they're doing. On 2nd thought, just wire the job to code and you'll be okay.

 

[physis]

Re: Inspection Process

I like talking with the inspectors. There's at least three around here that are XEC's. We have a great time complaining about the NEC together. Same with the non XEC inspectors too actually.

They all look for grounding. I think some might be able to sense an ungrounded juncion box in the attic before they're even inside. I think they snoop around the service panel sometimes looking at the GES before going in to look at whatever completely unrelated thing they were there to look at.

Some of the inspectors here are happy to accept your word on a code application, if they trust you, without making a big deal out of it. They like the idea that you bother to look it up and understand it. I guesss a lot of electricians don't.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Inspection Process

I have found that for the most part, inspectors have no time to do complete 100 % inspection
Now there are a few that will call to have minor corrections so they can sign it off and be done with it.
But on the other hand thier are some

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Inspection Process

"Another tactic, talk to the AHJ about fishing or hunting or whatever he likes...that always distracts them from what they're doing. On 2nd thought, just wire the job to code and you'll be okay. "

Seen this happen on an owner builder home final.Known the guy for many years.He got side tracted and almost forgot he did not see the house.Asked him if he was atleast gonna look at it and he answered what do you want me to see.Where is the permit i gotta go.