Inspection questions

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celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
I have a couple of questions regarding a recent inspection we had...

- Bonding
The inspector "asked" that the electric water heater be bonded (hot-to-cold)...I explained the supply was copper, but the rest is all PEX (he was unaware of the PEX, until I mentioned it).
Working on a PEXed job is a first for me - also for some of the plumbers on the job.
Is there any point to jumping the hot/cold copper connection at the HWH?


- Bell transformer
The bell transformers are mounted to a blank plate in a clothes closet.
The inspector feels the transformer will be a hazard due the heat generated by it...he would rather see an outlet and a plug-in style transformer.
He was also concered about the exposed LV terminals and the grounding of the transformer should it become loose on the blank plate.

Any comments?
 
Obviously bonding PEX is not required. Regarding the transformer, sounds like he doesn't like the installation but that doesn't automatically make it a violation. Unless he's got an article to back it up it should stay. Adding "what ifs" doesn't make something non compliant.
 
infinity said:
Unless he's got an article to back it up it should stay. Adding "what ifs" doesn't make something non compliant.
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I usually ask the inspector for a written notification so I can go to the property owner with a request for a change order since it is not in the NEC. This usually gets the inspectors attention, knowing the property owner will be shelling out additional money to satisfy their desires.

LOL, sometimes it gets me in hot water with the inspector. Oh well, it's not the 1st time, and probably won't be the last.
 
Most new transformers now have a ground wire for a good reason.
Grounding any plastic systen is just foolish and does nothing.The feed to water heater covers it fine (10-2 wg)
 
celtic said:
Is there any point to jumping the hot/cold copper connection at the HWH?
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None that I can see, and it is not required by the NEC, in my opinion.

250.104(A) states "Metal water piping system(s) installed in or attached to a building or structure shall be bonded..."

Nonmetallic PEX connected to a metallic manifold, connected to a metallic water heater, is not a metallic water piping system, IMO. It is a non-metallic system with metallic components. None of the components are subject to energization (or regular personnel contact, for that matter) so bonding serves no purpose.

The inspector feels the transformer will be a hazard due the heat generated by it...he would rather see an outlet and a plug-in style transformer.
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I have questions on this:
1. How much heat is generated by a 16 VAC Class 2 transformer?
2. How much heat would be generated by the tranformer if the button was stuck shut?
3. If this heat is appreciable, then why are there no restrictions on installation locations of Class 2 transformers in the NEC (outside of hazardous locations)?

He was also concered about the exposed LV terminals...
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Is the transformer a listed Class 2 transformer?

725.2 Definitions. Class 2 Circuit. The portion of the wiring system between the load side of a Class 2 power source and the connected equipment. Due to its power limitations, a Class 2 circuit considers safety from a fire initiation standpoint and provides acceptable protection from electric shock.
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...and the grounding of the transformer should it become loose on the blank plate.
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4. Is the equipment installed as listed? I assume there is no 120 VAC equipment grounding conductor inside the box from the transformer, and it uses it's surface mounting contact for grounding. Is the plate grounded? Is it installed securely?
 
hardworkingstiff said:
I usually ask the inspector for a written notification so I can go to the property owner with a request for a change order since it is not in the NEC. This usually gets the inspectors attention, knowing the property owner will be shelling out additional money to satisfy their desires.

LOL, sometimes it gets me in hot water with the inspector. Oh well, it's not the 1st time, and probably won't be the last.
Click to expand...

We all need to start cracking down on inspecters,either cite a number or back off.
 
an inspector was making small talk as he filled out a red tag on me.
He said ..." Just because someone has a masters License doesn't mesn he knows the code." I said "true, so where's your masters license? At least every master has passed some test on the code" The Journeyman Inspector shut up real fast.
 
77401 said:
an inspector was making small talk as he filled out a red tag on me.
He said ..." Just because someone has a masters License doesn't mesn he knows the code." I said "true, so where's your masters license? At least every master has passed some test on the code" The Journeyman Inspector shut up real fast.
Click to expand...


So did he finish writing your red tag??
 
77401 said:
Yea he did
And every other inspection of mine, he had the green tag filled out in his car before entering the job.
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Not really sure if thats winning.I rather enjoy being inspected and called down when wrong.But then i like mud.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

In the back of my head I knew there was nothing wrong with the installations....but the back of the head doesn't have a (loud) mouth :)

I (quietly) "managed" to get the green stickers I needed ( 2 of 90+)...with some exception/reservations:

- The bonding issue is postponed until such time as the remaining dozen units are given a rough inspection - where the PEX is apparent. This struck me as "odd" as all the units that had been given a green rough sticker had PEX :confused:
In the EI's defense - maybe he forgot about the PEX?
But, there is still opportunity to avoid the bonding/PEX issue when he inspects the rough on the remaining dozen or so units.

- The transformers are your typical 16VAC style:
249121ac.jpg

Simply mounted to a blank plate with a 7/8 hole in it, over a 1900+mud ring...tranformer ground tied to a grounding pigtail in the box.

The saving grace on this is a design change....the GC/PM "decided" to relocate the transformer from the mech. area into the closet where the FA panel is located.....if a "re-do" of any nature is required/demanded by the EI, the GC/PM gets to foot that bill for my two slowest guys to really shine...LOL

I usually DON'T get a specific article number for something that we (EI & myself) don't agree on...
...then again, I also don't ASK for the article he is thinking about citing.
We have a short discussion on the matter and, usually, decide right then and there what the deficiency is/isn't and come to an amicable resolution.

All in all, if these are the worst "faults" on this project - I'd say we are doing pretty damn good!

Thanks again :D
 
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