Inspector required fan boxes

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Re: Inspector required fan boxes

I agree with Bob and Sam and everyone else in that the NEC does not make a requirement for a possible future fan.
Ralph is correct in that Wisconsin State Code states that in all habitable rooms boxes would need the fan rating.
There are some communities/municipalities that go even further and state that other areas like top of staircases/landings or foyers need these also. But those would be in stated laws written by the individual communities, not just by the inspector and what they want to see.
We have some communities that allow NM exposed in the basement, and some that don't allow any exposed cable (metallic or non) in the basement. Contractors adhere to these rules because they are written rules/laws for those communities.
I would check all levels of jurisdiction to make sure that the inspector does or does not have a rule to stand behind.
 
Re: Inspector required fan boxes

90.1(C) Intention. This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons.

END OF STORY.
 
Re: Inspector required fan boxes

"It's a 52" fan hanging above my family's head, I would hope it stays up"
Bob ,i understand why you did it right.But we must understand the renter or home owner that might install that hunter fan on a plastic bracket box and honestly think he did a great job,That is till it falls on the face of his kid at 3 AM.While i agree that nec does not require a fan rated box ,do you not agree that if it saves one child face that it is worth that extra few dollars ? Do a few years of disaster ,fire,type work and your mind changes fast ,when you see how easy a child could be killed.
 
Re: Inspector required fan boxes

Jim:
But we must understand the renter or home owner that might install that hunter fan on a plastic bracket box and honestly think he did a great job,That is till it falls on the face of his kid at 3 AM.
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But Jim how far should we go to start protecting the DYS's. Or should I say how can we protect them all as there are many things they can do that can cause harm to them or others. I agree with your intent in princable, but I fall short on saying this is a must do as we will be padding the walls for DYS's forever. We cant protect everyone from themselves. ;)
 
Re: Inspector required fan boxes

I think that we spend plenty on gfci and afci in the direction of saving lives.If the ahj doesnt force this fan box are we going to count on slum lords to care ? Perhaps i go over board in some directions but when we put kids at risk i get upset.Someone needs to care and to think of a fan falling over less than $5 really gets me.I seen too many house fires that almost killed kids.Made the service call on a house that got hit my suicide helicopter operator,had there daughter been at home that night she would have been blinded from fuel leakage.While nothing could have prevented this we must take measures where we can.What we are talking about is less than $50 per average home.
 
Re: Inspector required fan boxes

Jim,

Should it also be required to run branch circuit wiring 1, 2, or 3 sizes over the requirement of the OCPD just in case some DYER replaces the circuit breaker with the wrong one?

Should the home service be oversized 2, 3, or more times the calculated load current because eventually the electrical demand on the home may become more than designed and joe homeowner may just replace the main circuit breaker to stop the annoying nuisance trips?

Where do you propose drawing that line? Could be talking serious dollars now, right?

Bob
 
Re: Inspector required fan boxes

I believe the purpose of the NEC is to protect both personnel and equipment from electrical harm with proper electrical and mechanical installations.
The NEC however does not protect people from themselves.
As a nation, we have warning labels everywhere because people don't use common sense all the time. Sure some labels are needed, but do we have to state that a hair dryer is not to be used in a shower? For most of us, that is common sense, yet we as contractors and inspectors have to protect for things just like that. We cannot protect all people from all things all of the time, when the biggest contributor to unsafe practices could be themselves.
The farther we go to try and prevent, the more that someone will find a way to be stupider.
Every D-I-Y'er and Ho Depot'er out there are forever going to continue and do their thing.
We must do our job, and our job is spelled out for us in our NEC, by people that have contemplated and reviewed and contemplated for years on things. Yes, we have our disagreements, and that is what forums and panels are for, and there will always be wierd circumstances, but following the NEC is how we protect others and equipment due to electrically and mechanically safe installations (and help protect ourselves from liability in the event of an incident).
 
Re: Inspector required fan boxes

As to the fan boxes, I personally do spend the extra few dollars for that fan brace where I know it is going to be needed, and I run that 3wire to it just incase.
I don't mind the extra few dollars. I do mind the crawling in an attic afterwards for the extra conductor.
Our forsight, however, may not be good enough to outwit our customers inventive thought process.
 
Re: Inspector required fan boxes

Ok do we all agree that if we put a regular pancake in the center of a bedroom ceiling ,control it from a wall switch and blank it off,that we have met nec requirements for the lighting outlet ?
Will that new home owner be at big orange buying a fan ? What will that floor person tell them about installing it ?They will go home and hang it to that not fan rated box.The instructions likely will point this hazard out to them,but they wont comply.The choice is ours.What upsets me is the high price for a plastic L box.I figured in the price of the box in my bid.Far rather do that than be changing it when the home owner shows up with fans.Now i can simply tell them it is $50 per fan if we install.Simple easy money if its ready to go.
 
Re: Inspector required fan boxes

Jim changes are where the money is made retro a light box that was on the print to a fan braced box is far more than the $50.00 you would get to install if you boxed it to plan.
Same as wiring for a fan we wire all fans with 3 wire but supply 1 switch in the bid.H/O`R wants 2 switches undo joint and install a F/L 1 gang device in the sp sw`s place.we get $125 for this :D
 
Re: Inspector required fan boxes

Will that new home owner be at big orange buying a fan ? What will that floor person tell them about installing it ?They will go home and hang it to that not fan rated box.The instructions likely will point this hazard out to them,but they wont comply.The choice is ours.
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Actually the choice is theirs. If I do a code compliant installation, and as far as the code is concerned a fan box is not required unless a fan is going in, and some dummy just throws up a fan that falls and scalps them am I at fault? I think not.
 
Re: Inspector required fan boxes

The bottom line is, this is in a state where inspectors are never questioned and whatever they say goes. :mad: And then there are some inspectors who ask for the fan boxes but let some of the worst violations go.

And forget about the fire alarm inspectors. They check every single inch of the fire alarm system but don't mention a word about the the dangerous electrical violations to any of the electrical inspectors.

It's all about politics, and I don't like it a bit. As they say, "It's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know." :mad:
 
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