Inspectors View

[Puckdrop 31]

With these panelboards that have neutral and egc in the same lug that were installed way back in the 90s. A contractor installs today 120 circuits to same panel with neutrals / egc terminated by todays code. Will inspector address the previous work and have it updated to the present NEC ? Any opinions ? TIA.

 

[augie47]

This area that would not be addressed. A Bit "grey" but on existing structures we inspect the new work and address any "Unsafe" items observed.

 

[Greentagger]

”Way back in the 90’s” in most instances, that was not a compliant install ( if sub panel in same structure). Existing but non-compliant may certainly be addressed.

 

[JGinIndy]

Shouldn’t always put it on the inspector as in “let’s sit back and see if he or she catches it” A knowledgeable and responsible “Electrician “ should address and correct prior to inspection.

 

[JGinIndy]

“Way back in the 90’s” that is hilarious

 

[LarryFine]

With few exceptions, grandfathering generally permits any work that was compliant when installed to remain.

Any work that was never compliant should be addressed, but separately from the scope of the present work.

 

[Greentagger]

When an egc from new circuits on new permit is landed on bonded neutral in existing non compliant work, there will be a violation on new permitted scope of work?

 

[Hv&Lv]

When an egc from new circuits on new permit is landed on bonded neutral in existing non compliant work, there will be a violation on new permitted scope of work?

Sort of what I was thinking, but was waiting on experts opinion here..

 

[JGinIndy]

Yes

 

[LarryFine]

When an egc from new circuits on new permit is landed on bonded neutral in existing non compliant work, there will be a violation on new permitted scope of work?

In my opinion:

Any work that was never compliant should be addressed, but separately from the scope of the present work.

 

[JGinIndy]

When an egc from new circuits on new permit is landed on bonded neutral in existing non compliant work, there will be a violation on new permitted scope of work?

Am I comprehending this as one is adding a code violation on an existing code violation?

 

[Greentagger]

That was the example I presented.

 

[LarryFine]

Am I comprehending this as one is adding a code violation on an existing code violation?

I took it to be asking how to add a compliant new circuit to an existing code violation. For example:

Suppose you had a non-compliant 3-wire feeder to a sub-panel, with no separate neutral and grounding buses.

How would you land the new circuit's grounded and grounding conductors? Logically, on the improper common bus.

Should the new installation fail until the original, improper feeder is addressed? Why, and at whose expense?

 

[JGinIndy]

That was the example I presented.

Thanks just wanted to re verify as threads can stray which this has not. To answer your question is yes and as an inspector I would not get all crazy about it and suggest adding another EGC bar if possible and then move on to focus on the rest of your project.

 

[JGinIndy]

I took it to be asking how to add a compliant new circuit to an existing code violation. For example:

Suppose you had a non-compliant 3-wire feeder to a sub-panel, with no separate neutral and grounding buses.

How would you land the new circuit's grounded and grounding conductors? Logically, on the improper common bus.

Should the new installation fail until the original, improper feeder is addressed? Why, and at whose expense?

Larry, good question and we all know the intent to not create parallel path. Now to answer your question would be three words that should be in everyone’s vocabulary from time to time” I don’t know “ I am not much into failing jobs I would rather work out a solution. What would be the solution? Walk away? Thoughts?

 

[Puckdrop 31]

I took it to be asking how to add a compliant new circuit to an existing code violation. For example:

Suppose you had a non-compliant 3-wire feeder to a sub-panel, with no separate neutral and grounding buses.

How would you land the new circuit's grounded and grounding conductors? Logically, on the improper common bus.

Should the new installation fail until the original, improper feeder is addressed? Why, and at whose expense?

I asked because a home i own and plan on selling has a panel that has neutrals/and gec in the same lugs and I see new work added { less then 1.5 yrs ago } to panel wired correctly that passed inspection. I not knowing the why or if it is acceptable. My intent is to see how most inspectors would deal with this. This was discovered by a HI. never removed cover until the report. There is more but i'll leave there. Thanks for all your great info.

 

[LarryFine]

I asked because a home i own and plan on selling has a panel that has neutrals/and gec in the same lugs and I see new work added { less then 1.5 yrs ago } to panel wired correctly that passed inspection. I not knowing the why or if it is acceptable.

Sounds like normal grandfathering to me.

 

[JGinIndy]

Sounds like normal grandfathering to me.

So as an inspector how would you handle this, documentation? Just asking. The term “ grandfathering” has always cracked me up, very commonly used but just funny.

 

[LarryFine]

So as an inspector how would you handle this, documentation?

I'm not one, but as one, I would/should know whether the installation was compliant when it was done.

Anything outside of the scope of work as defined in the permit application shouldn't affect inspection.

It should fall upon the inspector to open a separate complaint, at the property-owner's responsibility.

 

[JGinIndy]

Thanks Larry