Installation of Drip Pan's for elect.gear in a water sprinkler fire protection area.

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Armond

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Hi
I talk to Steve Arne who told me that the answer to my question is not in NEC but it might be in NFPA. I am not a member of NFPA. Mike Holt is a member. Could one of Mike Holt techanical staff use Mike Holt membership ID to ask the question to a NFPA engineer?
Please ask what page and what paragraph the question is answered in NFPA, please. This question is a life threating safety issue.
I am looking for a requirement for the installation of drip pan's installed above electrical gear in a area or room that has a water sprinkler system installed for fire protection. I need to know the drip pan distance above the gear, what the size is as far as lenght, width and side height. Maybe the drip pan is the complete length and width of the electrical gear with the size of the side's? I need to know what the drip pan should be made of and where does it drain to.
Without this drip pan installation the life threating safety possibility could happen. Just by the dirty water getting into the hot electrical gear which is only dust proof rated not water tight gear inside a building. An explosion could happen.
Steve Arne told me that NEC address's this issue only where a water pipe goes across the top of the electrical gear not a water sprinkler fire protection safety system. Please respond also to my e-mail address:

(Moderator’s Note: Edited to remove email address. If you wish to send an email message to this person, then first send a Private Message via this Forum, and ask for the email address.)

Thanks, Armond
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Speaking not for Mike or his staff, but only in my capacity of Chief Moderator, I do not think it reasonable to ask Mike or his staff to look up information for you. They are engaged in a private business, and they run (and pay for) this forum as a courtesy and as a voluntary contribution to the electrical industry.

If there is a member of this forum who has access to the information you requested, perhaps they will reply. But Mike very rarely posts anything on this forum himself.
 
Life threating safety issue: Drip Pan's on top of electrical gear.

Life threating safety issue: Drip Pan's on top of electrical gear.

Hi Charles

I read your reply and thank you. As far as what you said concerning:
(I do not think it reasonable to ask Mike or his staff to look up information for you. They are engaged in a private business, and they run (and pay for) this forum as a courtesy and as a voluntary contribution to the electrical industry.)

On a yearly basis Mike and others pay a membership to belong to NFPA. Even if he or others use's it or not which Mike and others have done for many years. Mike and others go to there conventions and other activities just like Mike and others are today for the next two weeks. I am not asking him, his staff or others to do the work just to call NFPA and give them there membership number so they can ask the question to the NFPA engineer who does all the work in finding the information. Where Mike or others only have to e-mail me there answer. Due to the fact this is a life threatening safety issue I would think you, others, Mike and his staff should be happy to get this information back to anyone by using the NFPA engineer where this life threaten issue could be prevented in the name of common sense, religious reasons, the right thing to do for man kind, because you are an American or maybe now because it is the Christmas season. Wither you agree with me or not I do not know. I am sure there are other man and woman who would. I hoping you will see it my way or tell me another way I should look at it? Thanks and Sincerely, Armond

PS: Merry Christmas and have a happy New Year.

(Moderator’s Note: Edited to remove email address, again. Please do not insert your email address into your post.
 
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What is there in the electrical room that will burn? If the gear is making enough heat to activate the sprinker heads then a little water isn't going to hurt anything and it just might save the building. Accidential discharge of fire sprinkler systems is very rare...I see no need for the drip pans.
Don
 
It?s not a ?life threatening safety issue.? It distresses me that you would use that phrase, as if to say that anyone who does not drop whatever they are doing and give you what you want is a person who has no concern for human life. I take especial exception to your attempt to use religion and "seasonal good will" to add another level of importance to your appeal.

The NFPA gives information to their members. If you want that information, then you are welcome to join. I did that once; I joined for no other reason than to give me the privilege of calling the Editor in Chief to ask one specific question. Now I question why you would expect a person who has paid the membership fee to give you what you are unwilling to pay for yourself.

But as I said earlier, there may be members of this forum who are also members of the NFPA. I am no longer a member myself. Those who are NFPA members may, or may not, as they choose, make the call for you.

You do have a no-cost alternative you could try. The NFPA has placed a number of their standards on-line, and you can access them for free. It doesn?t have a very convenient searching and reading process, but it is free. Start at NFPA.ORG.
 
If, in fact, the issue is life threatening, it seems almost criminal to let the cost of NFPA membership get in the way or potentially life saving information.

If you had family members living in this switchgear room, would you be so conservative with your resources?
 
I don't see this as a real issue. The only likely source of heat that would trip the sprinkler heads is the arcing fault in the switchgear. The water from the sprinklers at that point will not cause any additional damage to the electrical equipment and will prevent the spread of the fire outside of the electrical room. Preventing the spread of the fire will protect the occupants of the building. 110.26(F)(1)(c) clearly permits the space to be protected by a sprinkler system and only requires a drip pan if the sprinkler piping is run above the switch gear. This is really an issue for the fire protection engineer that designed the sprinkler system.
Don
 
Its only $135 to join the NFPA. If this is such a life safety issue then why not join and get the answer quickly?
I don't see this an an NEC issue anyway.
 
NEC 110.26(F) Dedicated Equipment Space talks about pipe ducts and leak appartus not being located in a zone above electrical equipment.
 
Bea,
Yes it says that you can't put the piping directly above the electrical equipment without a drip pan, but it does not say that you cannot provide sprinkler protection for the room.
Don
 
Hi Don
I agree also with your last sentence: THIS IS REALLY AN ISSUE FOR THE FIRE PROTECTION ENGINEER THAT DESIGNED THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM. That is the point I am making to have the NEPA Engineer answer the issue. If a Drip Pan is not required maybe it is written that Water Sprinkler Heads for Fire Protection System’s are required to be a certain distance from the over spray to the Electrical Gear or none are to be installed in a certain distance where Electrical Gear is 110 volts or higher. Thanks and have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Armond

Moderator’s Note: Edited to remove email address, yet again.
ARMOND: Please do not insert your email address into your post.

I don't see this as a real issue. The only likely source of heat that would trip the sprinkler heads is the arcing fault in the switchgear. The water from the sprinklers at that point will not cause any additional damage to the electrical equipment and will prevent the spread of the fire outside of the electrical room. Preventing the spread of the fire will protect the occupants of the building. 110.26(F)(1)(c) clearly permits the space to be protected by a sprinkler system and only requires a drip pan if the sprinkler piping is run above the switch gear. This is really an issue for the fire protection engineer that designed the sprinkler system.
Don
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Armond

Your answer was given by Don. It is not an issue for the NFPA people, it is a design question. You seem uncomfortable in designing the installation, and if so you should to turn to someone who isn't uncomfortable, preferrably the fire protection engineer.

Jim T
 
Armond,
If a Drip Pan is not required maybe it is written that Water Sprinkler Heads for Fire Protection System’s are required to be a certain distance from the over spray to the Electrical Gear or none are to be installed in a certain distance where Electrical Gear is 110 volts or higher
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There is no such restriction in the NEC or in NFPA 13, the fire spinker standard. The sprinkler heads must be installed in a loction to provide complete coverage of the room. That includes the area where the electrical equipment is installed. Again, this is not a code issue it is a design issue for the fire protection engineer, but if the room requires fire sprinklers, then complete coverage of the room is required. If you are teh electrcial guy and you don't like this, then you can see if the fire protection engineer can delete the sprinklers in this room or you can install NEMA 3R or 4 switchgear.
Don
 
Armond said:
Hi Don. I agree also with your last sentence: THIS IS REALLY AN ISSUE FOR THE FIRE PROTECTION ENGINEER THAT DESIGNED THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM. That is the point I am making to have the NEPA Engineer answer the issue.
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You misread Don?s statement. Don was talking about getting a person who has experience in designing fire protection systems involved in the project. That is what he meant by ?Fire Protection Engineer.?

That is not the same thing as saying ?an employee of the National Fire Protection Association? should get involved in the project.

The NFPA employs a large number of people, but only a small percentage of them are ?Fire Protection Engineers.? In addition, there are a great many qualified ?Fire Protection Engineers? in this country, and very few of them are employed by the NFPA.

If you want the NFPA to give you an answer, then you should consider joining the NFPA. If you want an NFPA member to ask the question on your behalf, then you can consider that you have already made that request. But so far, I have observed that no other member of this forum has yet stepped up and said, ?I am an NFPA member and I will call them for you.? Please remember that this is forum is entirely a voluntary activity. Nobody is obliged to do any work on behalf of any other member.
 
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