Installing Lights

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jeff43222

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Minneapolis, Minnesota
When people hire me to install lights, I generally tell them that I don't buy lights because I don't know their taste as well as they do. The only time I'll buy them is if they tell me they just want plain vanilla something where I pretty much can't buy the wrong thing.

So recently I was hired to replace three existing 6" recessed cans with something where the lights could be focused on sculptures, artwork, etc. I directed the HO to a high-end lighting store and told her to get what she wanted. I asked her to contact me and let me know what she bought so I would be properly prepared to install them. So I got a phone call from the lighting consultant telling me about the lights they decided on, and I explained that they could not be old-work lights since I was going to be ripping open the ceiling (HO wanted each light on its own dimmer, so I had to run new wiring).

So I get to the HO's place this morning, and sure enough, I found some very nice old-work lights. I then went to the store with the HO, explained things to a different consultant, and was sent home with some new-work IC-rated recessed cans with a pop-out focused light. As I'm getting ready to mount them, I see the sticker on the housing saying that they must be kept at least 3" from any insulation. Since the insulation was blown in, these lights wouldn't work either. I called the consultant, and she said I could just shove the insulation aside. I was about to tell her to shove something, but I decided to be polite and tell her I needed actual IC-rated lights. Back to the store again.

We finally got some decent IC-rated lights toward the end of the day today, and I'll have to go back tomorrow to mount and wire them.

I'm wondering if anyone has any tips as to how to avoid all this hassle the next time someone wants me to install new lights for them. In this case, money isn't the issue. HO didn't even blink at the extremely high cost of the lights -- three LV lights plus three LV dimmers came to about $600, and she was very nice about everything. She even fed me a very good homemade lunch.

I'd just like to spend more time doing electrical work and less time running back and forth to the lighting store.
 
Re: Installing Lights

For decorative pendants or socnces, I let the HO decide, either have them go buy it, or I will show them some catalogs.

For recessed, I choose the can that I need...it's too much work trying to explain IC/Non IC, compatible trims,what lamp it atkes etc to the uneducated HO. I have some clients that are hip to some or all of this, and they know what they want. I still go through the IRIS catalog (very high end downlighting, but worth it to the right clientel) and we choose trim colors and styles. If needed, my rep has a sample board for all of the cone colors (ie haze, champagne, specular clear, etc).

Many people ask what kind of decorative light, or ceiling fan to get, and I always tell them to get a name brand, as it will make hanging it easier for me. Sometimes they show me a picture or catalog and I will give it the yay or nay as far as dimensions and weight. I have hung some really obnoxious stuff, but the HO loved it. Who am I to argue as long as it's electrically well made?
 
Re: Installing Lights

Last week I foolishly sent a homeowner down to the big orange to get some recess cans. Carefully explained to him he needed IC cans, no not get any remodel cans (explained the physical difference real well) and most important of all to not bring back any of those little cube boxes they sell for 11 bucks that have a can, a trim, and a lamp all for the one price. I wrote down H-99IC on a paper so he would not screw up. What does he bring back? 20 of the stupid all in one packs (real cr__). They are not IC rated. And there is no bracket included, so they must be mounted as remodel cans or he was going to have to also supply me the optional mounting brackets. I didn't blow my top, but sure wanted to. Why did you bring back remodel cans?. The guy at the store said they were ok to use. Sent him back for brackets, as now he got stubborn and wanted the ones he bought. Instead of 20 minutes a pop to install it took about 45 minutes to assemble and fumble the things into place. The j-box that is on top of the can is about 1.25" square. Real rubbish. Next time I price in the cans myself and go fetch em.
 
Re: Installing Lights

In the first part of your story it would seem to me that someone should pay you for your time. If the homeowner supplied the lights and they did not get what you speced they screwed up.
In the second part, you were there to get the lights and still got the wrong ones. That you have to eat.

My advice. Stay away from lighting stores. They are notorious for screw ups as far as I am concerned.
 
Re: Installing Lights

Getting paid for my time won't be an issue in this case. I'm not too concerned about that aspect of this situation. I'd just like to cut down on all the screwing around trying to get things right.

Actually, when I went to the store with the HO for round two, I did specify that we wanted IC cans, and the paperwork indicated that we got IC cans. Only after I opened up the packaging at the HO's place did I find the sticker indicating that they were not IC cans.
 
Re: Installing Lights

I agree with mhulbert 100%. Better to get what you need for recessed cans yourself, and let the customer worry about the more interesting lighting fixtures.

To CYA, it's probably a good idea to carry a catalog and point to the color and style you normally install, and make a scene, and tell them how nicely the stock stuff will look in their home.

I can't picture sending a homeowner to get parts, but to each his own. I see can housings as rough material, not a customer taste item.

Recently I became a liason for a customer and her lighting company just to get the communication in line so I could have a chance at getting the quantity of fixtures I needed. I'm probably not going to wind up billing time against it, it was all on my own time. It's worth it if it cancels some headaches and drive time, IMO.

Edit to add: It's better to be the hero who made the process seamless, than the guy who elevated stress and introduced complications into the customer's zenlike life. :D

[ November 08, 2005, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Installing Lights

Handle the whole supply chain. I keep the catalogs on the truck that can handle 95% of the homeowner's needs. They pick what they want, I call or fax the order in, pick them up at the supply house and I install them. Customer gets the service. Charge for your time.
 
Re: Installing Lights

I like the catalog idea, but I was kinda hoping to avoid having to lug more stuff around. Then again, this job wound up requiring four trips to the lighting store before we wound up with the right stuff.

I got it all finished today, and the HO was about as happy with the final result as anyone I've ever done a job for. She also fed me a tasty homemade lunch again today, and she sent me home with a nice gift bag.

Since some of the extra time spent was kinda my fault, I gave her a little break on the final bill, which she pronounced "very reasonable." Oops.

Time to raise my rates again... :D
 
Re: Installing Lights

Originally posted by macmikeman:
Even better Idea, I think I'm going to start scanning all the lighting catalogs onto the laptop. Easier to lug around.
Click to expand...
Mike go to the company web sites, many provide their catalogs for free on downloaded-able pdf files.

Probably much cheaper for them then printing catalogs.
 
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