Insulated multi tap connectors

[mcelweec@gmail.com]

Is it permissible to use these for service taps. I have to tap 2 sets of 350mcm with a 1/0 for a fire pump.

 

[petersonra]

Is it permissible to use these for service taps. I have to tap 2 sets of 350mcm with a 1/0 for a fire pump.

Yes. However I have been told that they are only rated for 10 Ka sccr.

 

[ActionDave]

...I have been told that they are only rated for 10 Ka sccr.

That makes no sense to me. They are just a connector. I will be disappointed if it's true. I've used them often for taps. For the longest time I called Polairis connectors gutter taps because that was about all I used them for.

 

[big john]

A tap assembly no more needs an SCCR than a lug or wirenut would. I have never seen that listed in the specs.

I don't think SCCR comes into play if it's not part of a manufactured assembly.

 

[petersonra]

That makes no sense to me. They are just a connector. I will be disappointed if it's true. I've used them often for taps. For the longest time I called Polairis connectors gutter taps because that was about all I used them for.

I've seen documentation that claims all mechanical connectors are only rated for 10K a. I have tried to verify this with various connector manufacturers. So far I have very little success except for a couple that have admitted that they are. I've been after Panduit for the better part of a year trying to get an answer to this question and so far no such answer. At one time I had been told that a ul-listed connector was considered to be part of the conductor and that did not require a short circuit current rating. However it appears that's not true for at least some ul-listed connectors.

 

[Smart $]

I've seen documentation that claims all mechanical connectors are only rated for 10K a. I have tried to verify this with various connector manufacturers. So far I have very little success except for a couple that have admitted that they are. I've been after Panduit for the better part of a year trying to get an answer to this question and so far no such answer. At one time I had been told that a ul-listed connector was considered to be part of the conductor and that did not require a short circuit current rating. However it appears that's not true for at least some ul-listed connectors.

Have you tried asking UL?

http://contact.ul.com/contact-ul-services/?service=Testing

 

[petersonra]

Have you tried asking UL?

http://contact.ul.com/contact-ul-services/?service=Testing

Not a bad idea but I think the answer I will get wont be complete.

 

[Smart $]

Not a bad idea but I think the answer I will get wont be complete.

Won't know until after you ask and they reply...

 

[electrofelon]

To expand on the discussion, when are we NOT allowed to splice a conductor? Don't count situations where doing so results in fill violation, 240.21 violation, or 230.40/230.71 violation. I can only think of GEC (allowed if irreversible) and some article 680 egc situations. ARe there any others?

 

[JFletcher]

To expand on the discussion, when are we NOT allowed to splice a conductor? Don't count situations where doing so results in fill violation, 240.21 violation, or 230.40/230.71 violation. I can only think of GEC (allowed if irreversible) and some article 680 egc situations. ARe there any others?

Flying splices (no box).

 

[texie]

Power distribution bblock vs polaris connector

Power distribution bblock vs polaris connector

I think some are confusing a connector such as a Polaris connector with a power distribution block. Power distribution blocks have to be listed per 314.28 (E) and if used on the line side of service equipment must be listed and marked as such. A connector does not have this limitation.

 

[GeorgeB]

Power distribution blocks

Power distribution blocks

While not answering the question, I looked at <cough-cough> Automation Direct; in their power distribution blocks, there are 10kA and 200kA products offered. If higher currents were required, an enclosure and these would get you there.

 

[big john]

Power distribution blocks are not the same as split bolts or tap connectors. They are basically a bus and have different listing requirements, so I don't see how their SCCR rating is relevant.

 

[kwired]

While not answering the question, I looked at <cough-cough> Automation Direct; in their power distribution blocks, there are 10kA and 200kA products offered. If higher currents were required, an enclosure and these would get you there.

Power distribution blocks are not the same as split bolts or tap connectors. They are basically a bus and have different listing requirements, so I don't see how their SCCR rating is relevant.

Those are mounted on an assembly and to high of force from a fault could cause damage to the mounting.

An individual insulated tap or even a split bolt is not physically connected to anything but the conductors it joins. A fault is not going to put strains on the mounting method because there isn't one.

 

[Carultch]

I've seen documentation that claims all mechanical connectors are only rated for 10KA

If that were true, than it wouldn't be possible for a breaker of higher fault current rating to come with mechanical lugs as the only method for connecting to it.

 

[petersonra]

Won't know until after you ask and they reply...

I don't expect a reply at all, but it won't be before Monday if I get one.

 

[petersonra]

http://www.ihiconnectors.com/SCCR-UL508.htm

Short Circuit Current Rating (SCCR)
UL508 SCCR Standards for unmarked components.

For Basic unmarked Mechanical Components SCCR is assumed to be 10,000 amps/200hp/149KW

This includes Terminal Blocks, Fuseholders, Bus Bars, Etc

IHI Mechanical Wire Lugs therefore have a default SCCR of 10,000 amps, or (UL508C) motors up to 200hp/149KW.

Mechanical wire connectors typically have the capability to pass testing for 100,000-200,000 amps. Only if such testing is done may the SCCR rating be higher than 10,000 amps for mechanical components. Please inquire if SCCR is required above 10,000 amps on a specific part.

 

[fmtjfw]

To expand on the discussion, when are we NOT allowed to splice a conductor? Don't count situations where doing so results in fill violation, 240.21 violation, or 230.40/230.71 violation. I can only think of GEC (allowed if irreversible) and some article 680 egc situations. ARe there any others?

Many POCOs forbid splices in unmetered conductors. A splice could be a point of connection for a power theft.

 

[kwired]

Many POCOs forbid splices in unmetered conductors. A splice could be a point of connection for a power theft.

Did you see the picture posted here a few weeks back of the former grow house where they cut into the RMC service mast from the attic with a rotary tool or similar and tapped into the service conductors? No "conventional" splice point is necessary to make a tap:happyno:

 

[petersonra]

If that were true, than it wouldn't be possible for a breaker of higher fault current rating to come with mechanical lugs as the only method for connecting to it.

this explanation is a little strange so stay with me if you would. The lugs the circuit breaker manufacturers use on their products are not listed. They are only recognized. You can only use specific lugs if you want to get the advertised AIC rating on the circuit breaker. There may be some exceptions to this rule but generally it's a specific part number actually marked on the circuit breaker or in the instructions that has been approved for this use by UL.