Interesting GEC installation (pics)

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jimport said:
Sorry but the only time I have seen fires involving SE cables have been when someone drilled into them.

Wonder what he would say about this one.
new_cable_outside.JPG
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What I would say is why woudl somebody do this???

The meter should have been located where the se enters the house. The riser could then have shot straight up and angled over the the drop location.

Maybe too close to gas meter??

Still a better looking job could have been done. That is just ugly!
 
electricmanscott said:
What a boneheaded inspector.

It's ok to leave the feeder as a blatant violation but god forbid you leave se cable exposed which is legal. Flippin' morons out there I'm telling ya. :rolleyes:

And since when did the NEC enact the "If it is too much work don't you don't have to comply" rule anyway?
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I dont get it-whats wrong with SEU cable attached directly,if this is such a fire hazard,why is it still manufactured and listed???
 
jflynn said:
I dont get it-whats wrong with SEU cable attached directly,if this is such a fire hazard,why is it still manufactured and listed???
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There is nothing wrong with SEU cable.
 
electricmanscott said:
There is nothing wrong with SEU cable.
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Scott, I will take your word on that, as I know that it's listed and used in other parts of the country, but not here.

One question, is it listed to be installed on cedar siding?
 
electricmanscott said:
What a boneheaded inspector.

It's ok to leave the feeder as a blatant violation but god forbid you leave se cable exposed which is legal. Flippin' morons out there I'm telling ya. :rolleyes:

And since when did the NEC enact the "If it is too much work don't you don't have to comply" rule anyway?
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If your house was wired w/ old 2-wire romex, and you did a service change, would you want to rip the pine ceiling out to change it to a 4-wire? It was a 100A service w/ a 12-space panel feeding 2-wire circuits. Its just my opinion, but I didn't see it as a necessary thing to do. Service upgrade was to add electric appliances, which were fed from the new combo outside.
 
brantmacga said:
If your house was wired w/ old 2-wire romex, and you did a service change, would you want to rip the pine ceiling out to change it to a 4-wire? It was a 100A service w/ a 12-space panel feeding 2-wire circuits. Its just my opinion, but I didn't see it as a necessary thing to do. Service upgrade was to add electric appliances, which were fed from the new combo outside.
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I don't have a pine ceiling.

This info was not in the original post.
You made it sound like you replaced the service and left the feed to the panel. You failed to mention that it was a subpanel and not part of the service.


I guess the feeder would not have to be replaced if all you did was replace the riser and meter/combo and didn't change the panel inside the house that was fed from that three wire feeder.

I'm still not totally on board with this yet.
 
Minuteman said:
Scott, I will take your word on that, as I know that it's listed and used in other parts of the country, but not here.

One question, is it listed to be installed on cedar siding?
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What would make you even think of that question?
 
electricmanscott said:
I don't have a pine ceiling.

This info was not in the original post.
You made it sound like you replaced the service and left the feed to the panel. You failed to mention that it was a subpanel and not part of the service.
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It sounded like that because that's what I did. It was a 100A service feeding a 12 circuit panel inside the house. The SEU went through the attic and then crossed through the rafters in a vaulted ceiling to get there. The house was built in the '50's and is in a historic classified area. It had 12-2 w/o ground. To replace the 3-wire SEU would've required tearing out the ceiling. I didn't mention all these things originally because I didn't think I would have to come back later and defend it. Anyway, I stuck a new combo center on the house and tied the existing SEU into it, then ran the electric appliance circuits I added to the new service.

electricmanscott said:
I guess the feeder would not have to be replaced if all you did was replace the riser and meter/combo and didn't change the panel inside the house that was fed from that three wire feeder.

I'm still not totally on board with this yet.
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While it was a code violation, I didn't see a need to run a 4-wire feeder to this panel that had no grounding conductors in it. I guess the inspector felt the same way. If I'm a hack for doing it, so be it. I think it was the right call.

I hope I didn't sound too much like a j****ss in those comments above. A braindead lineman, a grumpy inspector, and a non-paying customer made today a pretty lousy one. I'm so ready for this 3-day weekend. Tonight, I'm goimg to try and dream about all those cobia's that are in the shallow waters of the gulf waiting for me.
 
My take is this...If you replaced the riser and meter/combo only and just tied in the feeder you could leave as is since you didn't do anything with it.

But...If you replaced the riser, meter/combo, and panel and left the three wire feeder I would have a problem with that.

Sounds like the first option was what you did. My other question would be what size breaker did you feed the panel from and what is the wire size?

The reality is it really doesn't matter what I think. :grin:
 
electricmanscott said:
What would make you even think of that question?
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I was just looking at the pic and thinking, Cedar siding (and roofing) has all but disappeared here, because it is so combustible. Since I have never seen a house with SEU in person, I wondered about this installation on a siding that has a bad reputation for fires.
 
Minuteman said:
I was just looking at the pic and thinking, Cedar siding (and roofing) has all but disappeared here, because it is so combustible. Since I have never seen a house with SEU in person,
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I'll take some pics for you, I personally love SEU, the ONLY time its a problem is when some ya-hoo catv guy drills a pilot hole into it...
 
If there was/is a panel in the building that is supplied with 2-wire, and you tied it back in after your upgrade, that means you re-installed an existing violation...that is never permitted.

I am in the process of taking classes that deal with the legal implications for work performed in NYS. I am confident that other states/jurisdictions have similar laws/restrictions.

The panel you mentioned, if I understand you correctly, is a serious hazard. There is no intentional path for fault current to flow. If there was to be a ground fault in any of those circuits, the overcurrent device will never open.
 
Personally I would try to fish in a new ground separately. I have enough dversabits and fishsticks to get almost anywhere in a house. I can bounce across 80 feet of soffit like a ferret.
 
electricmanscott said:
What I would say is why woudl somebody do this???

The meter should have been located where the se enters the house. The riser could then have shot straight up and angled over the the drop location.

Maybe too close to gas meter??

Still a better looking job could have been done. That is just ugly!
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No meters allowed under first floor windows, needs 18" clearance from windows also.

Connections cannot enter top or back of socket, utility rules.

Inspector will not accept weatherhead on angle, must be in a vertical orientation.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
If there was/is a panel in the building that is supplied with 2-wire, and you tied it back in after your upgrade, that means you re-installed an existing violation...that is never permitted.

I am in the process of taking classes that deal with the legal implications for work performed in NYS. I am confident that other states/jurisdictions have similar laws/restrictions.

The panel you mentioned, if I understand you correctly, is a serious hazard. There is no intentional path for fault current to flow. If there was to be a ground fault in any of those circuits, the overcurrent device will never open.
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Pierre, are you saying a panel that has no circuits w/ grounding conductors should be fed w/ a grounding conductor? If it wasn't a violation when it was installed, can it really be classified as an existing violation? It was built to the standards of the time. Furthermore, it would be almost impossible to add any circuits to it that have a grounding conductor because of the location in a wall under a vaulted ceiling. With a new meter combo in place outside, I would feel confident in saying that anyone who adds any circuits in the future would go to the new compliant service. It was a unique situation.

electricmanscott said:
My take is this...If you replaced the riser and meter/combo only and just tied in the feeder you could leave as is since you didn't do anything with it.

But...If you replaced the riser, meter/combo, and panel and left the three wire feeder I would have a problem with that.

Sounds like the first option was what you did. My other question would be what size breaker did you feed the panel from and what is the wire size?
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Then it looks like we agree. Existing panel was untouched. Original was fed w/ a 100A breaker. It was 1/0 AL.
 
iwire said:
:grin:


I have an SE service on my own home, I have no interest in having conduit on the front corner of my house.
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I agree,- this is a very common practice in the northeast,also the general feeling I get from potential customers is -they to do not want a conduit in the front of there house.
 
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