I have a panel at a customers home that has a burnt bus so I recommended replacement of the panel along with the breakers that are damaged. Existing panel is 7 years old. If I purchased the exact panel and replaced just the internal parts such as the bus along with the main breaker assembly, would that void the UL listing of the panel?
Internal Panel Parts Replacment
- Thread starter chris1971
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Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
No ,
You are allowed to install replacement parts. Some manufactures sell replacement guts for older panels.
For commercial bolt in panels I sometimes purchase the panel cans seperatly and then order the guts with breakers as a means to keep the job moving fast track.
Who has told you otherwise.
You are allowed to install replacement parts. Some manufactures sell replacement guts for older panels.
For commercial bolt in panels I sometimes purchase the panel cans seperatly and then order the guts with breakers as a means to keep the job moving fast track.
Who has told you otherwise.
yes you have voided the listing, the panel was listed as an assembly and you have stripped parts out, unless they have individual part numbers for the installed you have voided the listing, chances are it was a load center and not a panel board.
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No one. I just want to make sure this is a feasible option. I will call the manufacturer tomorrow for verification. Existing panel is 6-7 years old.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
We do this all the time here. Inspectors are even on board. Most times it is an emergency fix to get their power back on sooner. But doesn't have to be an emergency as long as everything is the same inside. If it's an obsolete panel we get the closest match we can. Some of them are the same (or nearly) the same guts with the exception of the breakers. IIRC, a Siemens or Murray will fit in a Crouse Hinds pretty good.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
Were do you come up with these things.
The manufacture sells replacement parts , I have been told by the manufacture to buy a new one and take the guts out rather than waste his time to order the parts as they are too expensive that way.
If you are speaking of a obsolete panel and replace with a non manufactured part then maybe.
Agreed. If we are talking a panelboard, the cans, covers, and interiors are separate items and are field assembled. On larger projects we may have 20, 30, 40+ panelboards that use the same size panel can, we don't care which interior goes in what can. We mount the cans and when the time comes we put the correct interior into the can mounted at that location. The point is, if a factory part fits into another of the same factories parts all is well.
Remember, this listing business has progressed to the borderline of ridiculous.
Roger
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
I recently had a situation like this for a commercial customer with an obsolete Siemens 100A load center in a storage area. That particular load center is no longer manufactured and Siemens told me I am NOT allowed to put guts from the current iteration into the older can because it will void the UL listing.
Others are talking about panelboards, which is a whole different animal from the load centers used in residential work. I personally think it's ridiculous that you can't swap out guts in a load center if the enclosure is the exact same size, but it's not my call. I've even seen inspectors ding a load center for having screws from different manufacturers holding the cover on. Crazy.
Others are talking about panelboards, which is a whole different animal from the load centers used in residential work. I personally think it's ridiculous that you can't swap out guts in a load center if the enclosure is the exact same size, but it's not my call. I've even seen inspectors ding a load center for having screws from different manufacturers holding the cover on. Crazy.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Panelboards and load centers are the same thing under the NEC. The NEC does not require that the enclosure be a listed item. I would have no issue with installing new "guts" in any existing enclosure as long as the size of the enclosure provides the required wire bending space when the new "guts" are installed.
Ragin Cajun
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate S.C.
FOLLOW THE MONEY!
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
If it is not an exact replacement I agree. The code make no differentiation.
Screws .,... I can see that if it is just plain old screws.
We do field installed ground bars all the time. I suppose that would void the listing.
Tell the inspector to get a life.
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
If you can get an exact replacement, great, and will not violate any rules. Here is an option that often works with load centers where you can't get an exact interior replacement: http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=167983
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Short answer yes.
So the following does not apply:
110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use
of Equipment.
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.
IMHO you now go to:
110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use
of Equipment.
(A) Examination. In judging equipment, considerations
such as the following shall be evaluated: .......
90.4
...The authority having jurisdiction for
enforcement of the Code has the responsibility for making
interpretations of the rules, for deciding on the approval of
equipment and materials, and for granting the special permission
contemplated in a number of the rules. .....
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
There would be no reason for a AHJ to be involved in the first place.
If you are installing an exact replacement then there is no issue. I have never seen a panel with rivited buss and special tamper proof seals that prevent this. If there was issue I would think the manufacture would use tamper proof screws or something.
I agree this is ridiculous. I had a discussion with the AHJ and he stated that if I could get documentation from the manufacturer and have it available for the inspector then he would allow it. I called the manufacturer Eaton and the person with tech support stated that it would void the UL listing.
You need to contact Eaton again and ask them why they actually set up a trailer in customers parking lots (yes they did it in ours) selling their ability to make listed replacement interiors and covers for any brand panelboard.
Or, just cave into the hogwash.
Roger
Call Eaton tech support and see what they tell you.
I don't have to, I told you that they brought a trailer to our parking lot and gave us tours touting their ability to make listed replacement interiors for any manufacturers can.
In reality that doesn't even play into your scenario, it is a one to one replacement, no problem but, you can do what ever you want to sell to your customer.
Roger
Tell you what, send me a PM with the name of the person you talked to and I'll contact them.
Roger
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