Invitations To Bid from out of state co.s??

[lbwireman]

In the past month we've received 4 or 5 "Invitations To Bid" from companies (corporate) located in other states. A search on the CSLB website found only one of these to be licensed to contract in CA. The licensed one, based in OK, actually FedExed us a complete set of plans from an architect in TX, we did a site survey and reported our findings to them (plans were for renovation of a rental unit in a mall). Another co., also corporate, also in OK, emailed us the same set of prints. Both co.s asked us to "just bid it from the prints". The problem is, the prints call for a 3Ph. 120/208 4W, While our site survey found the unit served from an underground electrical room with 1Ph 120/240 3W. The cost of converting the existing to what's proposed on the prints in the existing structure would be astronomical relative to the return from the one ~1500 sq.ft. rental unit. We have not done site surveys on the structures in the other ITBs we've received as they do not appear to be licensed in CA and we would therefore be bidding as a sub to an unlicensed GC. A violation of the CA B&P code that can get your license pulled.

I apologize for the length of the post but I wanted to be sure I explained the situation clearly. Has anybody else had any experience with this type of invitation? The two outfits with whom I spoke directly (1 licensed in CA, 1 not) both claimed they "have done hundreds of these all over the country". Both also wanted, even after being told of the disparity between prints and on-the-ground reality, us to "just bid the prints and we'll work out the details later". Any and all input on this will be welcome. This is a new phenom in our area.

 

[charlie b]

I don't know your current business situation. But to me, this sounds like an ideal time to decline to bid.

 

[petersonra]

I wouldn't get too worked up about the license situation. Just make sure you make it clear that you won't do something that is not legal. These kind of operators have a lot of experience all around the country and know exactly what the minimum is they have to do to get by. I'd be inclined to bid exactly what they asked.

Incidentally, some of these guys are actually owned by the company that owns the property so its more akin to bidding to the owner as opposed to bidding to a GC.

 

[mkgrady]

If you decide to bid, you should have your question to them in writing and a written answer. Then refer to the RFI and the answer in your proposal so it is clear what you are offering to do. Verbal understandings are sometimes worthless and often damaging to the parties.

 

[ITO]

Baaaaa I hate give this away but its xmas so here:

I bid this stuff all the time its pure gravy if you can find the sweet spot. Don't concern youself with where the GC is from, a lot of chain stores have out of state GCs.

There are two ways to do it:

1) Bid it per plans and specs and make sure your clearly defined scope says as much. (You have a good scope letter right?)

or

2) Waste your time and bid it per plans and specs and include an adder for fixing it. This may or may not buy you some brownie points YMMV.

I'd go with #1 and if you get the job, AFTER you have a contract that does not include fixing the problem for free, write the RFI so you can start the process to get your first CO.

Be careful some contracts try to mandate a site visit and hook you for any existing conditions.

GCs like this bid dozens of small jobs like this every week and want apples to apples for a quick comparison, if you get to site specific they will throw out you bid because it will take too much time to figure out.

On a good day I can crank three of these out by 4pm with at least 1 call back.

 

[tyha]

I fully agree with ITO. bid it how they want it and exactly how it is shown on plans. dont worru about the license issue. if they get the project they will have the license before they start to work. we bid these all the time.

 

[480sparky]

They may well be soliciting bids just to see if they can get the project. If they do, then they spend the money and time to get their ducks in a row.

 

[satcom]

both claimed they "have done hundreds of these all over the country".

And most likely a trail of unpaid EC's all over the country also, they are always looking to hook new fish. My bet is if you were to check their background and credit, they have none.

 

[mdshunk]

They may well be soliciting bids just to see if they can get the project. If they do, then they spend the money and time to get their ducks in a row.

That was my first thought too. They're collecting budgetary numbers with no real intentions of awarding anyone any work at this point. They probably don't even have the job themselves.

 

[nakulak]

as others indicated, there is some gamesmanship required, especially when bidding these type of jobs. How you go about giving a bid is entirely dependant on what type of game you want to play. Playing the game might get you the job, as well as another client for whom you can bid other jobs; on the flip side, not playing doesn't really advance your position, but at times, as some said, it might be best. So, for instance, if you think they want a budget number, send them a budget number, or phone them in a budget number but qualify it. If they want a detailed quote and you don't think you are wasting your time, give them a detailed quote. But if you were to, say, qualify all your bids indicating (regardless of the invitation or specs) that your bid was based solely on the plans, then you might be able to put in for an extra when and if you hit the job regarding the fact that the service was not as indicated. Providing a non-conforming response to bid documents can lose jobs, but it can also be a way to protect yourself and play the extra game, if you are so inclined.

 

[bradleyelectric]

I'm sure it's just like Ito said. Happens all the time. They want it bid per the plans. Scope it as such. Note: Our price based on service as in plans. They probably don't have the job yet. Call the Architect, tell them you received plans from **** and ask who else is bidding the job. It will most likely be awarded in a week and start as soon as it makes it through building department permitting. They have probably gone through permitting all across the country with very similar spaces. They also probably have a very good budget number from historical spaces.

 

[Greg Swartz]

This happens to me all the time.

I get calls, ITBs, plans in the mail... bid this please...

I agree with ITO... bid it per plans... do not spend that much time on it, because you are not likely to get the job with them... however, take a spin on this...

I usually get ITBs for the same job, from multiple companies. (Just got a call yesterday from a GC: Are you bidding on Sam's club... he wants other EC's numbers.) I send my bid out to a lot of the companies bidding the job. Each get my package... You have a much higher chance to get the job.

Now that you know the job, you got your first change order. Don't fix the job before you get it. They will keep relisting the job, and everyone will get the new information. You will keep spending time (and therefore money) and everyone of your competitors will receive the benefit. And you may never get the job...
When you have your change order, you can bid it a full rate, as opposed to "lowballing" like you did to get the job.

We had a Garlic Jim's pizza here in town. I bid 2 GCs. one from out of state... He says "We do all the Garlic Jims... blah blah blah..." Well, He didn't get it here...

 

[sparky 134]

I received drawings for a tenant buildout at a mall. I started reviewing the project specifications from the tenant (and it was a LONG list) and I was already leaning away from the project. Then I noticed the GC was out of CANADA !!

Getting paid by an out of state contractor is hard enough but one that's out of the country !!!

I passed on the project.

 

[macmikeman]

I don't do that type of work much any more, but I used to do lots of tenant buildouts from two company's that were both based in Wisconson, not Hawaii. Never had any problems at all whether from the legal side of doing business for them , nor the money side or collecting. They seemed to have the national chain store accounts for lots of little merchant stores like sunglass sellers and shoe stores. The planning and scheduling was top notch, usually carried out by fax, and early versions of e-mail. I wish homebuilders that carry local licenses could plan work as smoothly.

 

[petersonra]

we bid all kinds of stuff that is a wild guess at the time of bid because the buyer really does not know what exactly he is going to need. he will give us as much as he has, but often that is not all that close to what it ends up being. but you have to base your budget requests on something, and getting multiple bids on an apple to apple basis is one way of keeping the numbers reasonably honest.

 

[petersonra]

That was my first thought too. They're collecting budgetary numbers with no real intentions of awarding anyone any work at this point. They probably don't even have the job themselves.

how do you think they are going to come up with the numbers other than asking subs to bid it?

 

[480sparky]

how do you think they are going to come up with the numbers other than asking subs to bid it?

Possibly from historical data they alread have. You think Starbucks is clueless how much one of their stores will cost?

 

[mdshunk]

how do you think they are going to come up with the numbers other than asking subs to bid it?

You seriously asking this? :-?

 

[petersonra]

Possibly from historical data they alread have. You think Starbucks is clueless how much one of their stores will cost?

You can get some good ideas that way, but local prices can vary a lot. They probably just want some hard numbers to see if their guesses are close enough.

 

[petersonra]

You seriously asking this? :-?

yep. short of them having actual experience doing work in that locale any estimate they make might not be especially meaningful. if I am bidding stuff, I want as many hard numbers as I can get.

i estimate stuff all the time, and most of it is things that are very similar to things we have done before. we still go through the exercise of making sure our numbers are real.