Invoicing

[hotblueelectric]

Just wondering how you electrical contractors invoice.
1. Do you show actual material cost on your invoices.
2. Do you show material markup on your invioce.
3. Do you keep all material receipts with your invoices for the year.
4. Or do you show material cost on your invoices at all.
I am trying to figure out the best way to invoice and keep everything simple for the end of the year preparation.
Any suggestions or ideas will be greatly appreciated.

 

[480sparky]

"Install a,b,c,d..... $n,nnn.nn".

 

[markstg]

Just wondering how you electrical contractors invoice.
1. Do you show actual material cost on your invoices.
2. Do you show material markup on your invioce.
3. Do you keep all material receipts with your invoices for the year.
4. Or do you show material cost on your invoices at all.
I am trying to figure out the best way to invoice and keep everything simple for the end of the year preparation.
Any suggestions or ideas will be greatly appreciated.

Wouldn't it depend on how you made your proposal.
If lump sum than as 480 said: Scope of Work....$xxx
If your proposal says you add 10% to materials than you need to show material invoices (at least for me).
If you come up with any other scheme, the invoice has to match (support)that scheme.

 

[jwjrw]

I only have one customer I seperate labor and material on the invoice. Per his request and we do a lot of work for him so I do it. Everyone else gets a list of what we did and an invoice total.

 

[wirenuter]

invoicing

invoicing

If you qouted just the total amount
If its T+M show a labor total, and a material total.
If someone requests a break down, then give it.
The problem with showing everything always is you just invite questions about why are you charging 3.50 for a .80 part. Remember that there is a reason you mark up. Its not greed. Its overhead and having to back up what you install.
if you are resonable about what you charge you clients will typicaly understand.
When you f people they know, and everbody has alive knows that feeling.

 

[ptonsparky]

We use Quickbooks & it has so many options has to how invoices print out for a customer, all your concerns should be covered. Enter items with your costs displayed for your records, then have it print a total only including markup for your customer. If you don't like what they have, customize one to meet your needs.

 

[480sparky]

.....
If someone requests a break down, then give it.
........

Why? The only people who want a breakdown are the ones who will use it against you.

"Why is this so much?" "Why are you charging me for that?" "I never agreed to this!"

 

[jmsbrush]

I agree with you 100% 480.
Our customers only get a total price upfront. They have to accept the price and terms or we move on.

 

[CopperTone]

if it is a time and material job the invoice looks like this

Material $xxx.xx
(We add material cost then mark up then that is the price we put on the bill)

labor
1 lic. electrician & 1 apprentice $xxx.xx /hr x 8 hrs = $xxx.xx

then Add both numbers together


If it was a quote price or bid - then the bill simply describes the work done with price due. As far as preparing for the end of the year - these invoices dont really matter other than gross income. We use quickbooks - you should at least be using QB if you are running your own business. There are other more complex accounting programs but if you are a small business QB is fine.

QB will track all of your expenses as long as you enter them into QB coded correctly. An accountant can help you set up QB or there is training available. Your accountant will love you too if you are actually good at QB cause it makes their life much easier. It will cost you less from the accountant too cause they don't have to spend days sorting through your mess.

 

[teco]

All the commercial customers I work for would not even look at a proposal that didn't have breakout details. It is sometimes even required in the bid package. I only do commercial projects but I have to say, I wouldn't let someone repair my truck without asking for parts and labor cost. I guess I feel I have a right to markup for profit and overhead like every other type of business. As long as I'm not using a gun and a mask when I do it. If the customer does not feel that way then I don't want to work for them anyway as that raises a red flag to me they might be trouble. IMO

 

[teco]

I should have also answered the question asked. Sorry. All the customers that I work for require the labor and materials break out on the invoices. Some of them send them back to me, ap will not pay without the breakout. I hear what some are saying but I have never been lucky enough yet to find a company that does not demand the details for payment.

 

[ptonsparky]

Most of mine want the breakout to. They may never study it closely. They just want to know that a NMLT12590, whatever that is, cost them $43.22.

 

[Sierrasparky]

All the commercial customers I work for would not even look at a proposal that didn't have breakout details. It is sometimes even required in the bid package. I only do commercial projects but I have to say, I wouldn't let someone repair my truck without asking for parts and labor cost. I guess I feel I have a right to markup for profit and overhead like every other type of business. As long as I'm not using a gun and a mask when I do it. If the customer does not feel that way then I don't want to work for them anyway as that raises a red flag to me they might be trouble. IMO

What if they are lump sum contracts. I hear you on being specific as to what parts are being installed. I would not list prices on the parts as well is the labor hours. Are these companies going to ask for a rebate if you get the job done quicker? Are you going to get paid extra if your job takes longer.

I agree on breakout for T&M but not for Lump sum.

 

[ptonsparky]

Lump sum gets a lump that is for sure. They can get # of items & # of hours but no Breakout of price per. We also have a no show line for customers that gives us detail as to profit/loss on job if bid. They see the bid price on invoice. We see it as costs plus or minus the difference. Works here.

 

[Sierrasparky]

All the commercial customers I work for would not even look at a proposal that didn't have breakout details. It is sometimes even required in the bid package. I only do commercial projects but I have to say, I wouldn't let someone repair my truck without asking for parts and labor cost. I guess I feel I have a right to markup for profit and overhead like every other type of business. As long as I'm not using a gun and a mask when I do it. If the customer does not feel that way then I don't want to work for them anyway as that raises a red flag to me they might be trouble. IMO

One problem there. When you get you car serviced the writer uses a cost book and charges labor. When you perform electrical there are a lot of unknowns.

 

[CDELECT]

All the commercial customers I work for would not even look at a proposal that didn't have breakout details. It is sometimes even required in the bid package. I only do commercial projects but I have to say, I wouldn't let someone repair my truck without asking for parts and labor cost. I guess I feel I have a right to markup for profit and overhead like every other type of business. As long as I'm not using a gun and a mask when I do it. If the customer does not feel that way then I don't want to work for them anyway as that raises a red flag to me they might be trouble. IMO

All residential work is contract work a lump sum amount, and residential service calls are all flat rate with step pricing, our commercial accounts are also contract, we have service and maint contracts that have invoiced breakdowns but remember, we have a contract with every commercial account, and they know our billing terms up front, so for an example a service rate, not (labor rate) may be $175 or more an hour, and material is marked up at least 50% we never worked with any account that wanted a labor and material breakdown, and most like will not in my lifetime .

 

[teco]

All residential work is contract work a lump sum amount, and residential service calls are all flat rate with step pricing, our commercial accounts are also contract, we have service and maint contracts that have invoiced breakdowns but remember, we have a contract with every commercial account, and they know our billing terms up front, so for an example a service rate, not (labor rate) may be $175 or more an hour, and material is marked up at least 50% we never worked with any account that wanted a labor and material breakdown, and most like will not in my lifetime .

Maybe that works for service work or small jobs. I don't do much of that so I really can't say. I've never been invited to bid a so called lump sum contract so I can't not speak to that either.

If I try to give a customer in my area a bid worth $300,000.00 and give them no details I'm not getting the job. I've yet to see a purchasing dept not be required to get break outs before they can issue a PO for any job worth over a certain value. Its usually around 25,000.00 for the cutoff value for most projects I do. More than once over the years I've been told my number is to high, only to end up winning the job because the another company refused to provide required breakouts.
If a proposal has been prepared properly, with the proper mark ups, and overhead, with burdens etc applied to it then I don't see why there should be a problem presenting it to customer. IMO

 

[teco]

One problem there. When you get you car serviced the writer uses a cost book and charges labor. When you perform electrical there are a lot of unknowns.

I agree there are, but its our job as the an estimator to review the plans and do the job walkthroughs and account for "unknowns" so they become knowns. If there is something not included in the scope of work, the plans, etc, then charge an extra for it. That is what I do.