irrevesible splicing of grounding conductor

[bawz]

I am installing a 45KW single phase generator, and connecting it to a 400a single phase residential service. The existing service has 2 200A main panels, connected to 1 400a meter with no disconnects. I installed 2 200A service rated ATS's between the meter and main panels.
Was not thinking ahead, the single grounding conductor from the generator needs to be a irrevsible splice.
I need to find a method to splice 3 aluminum conductors in a trough before going into the ATS's. Local inspector has no input, and does not have any recommendations. Local supply house doesn't have any ideas either??
Any ideas or recommendations would be a huge help.
Thanks

 

[gndrod]

I am installing a 45KW single phase generator, and connecting it to a 400a single phase residential service. The existing service has 2 200A main panels, connected to 1 400a meter with no disconnects. I installed 2 200A service rated ATS's between the meter and main panels.
Was not thinking ahead, the single grounding conductor from the generator needs to be a irrevsible splice.
I need to find a method to splice 3 aluminum conductors in a trough before going into the ATS's. Local inspector has no input, and does not have any recommendations. Local supply house doesn't have any ideas either??
Any ideas or recommendations would be a huge help.
Thanks

From the data mentioned, I interpret the need to permanently connect the grounded service conductor in parallel with 2 additional neutral grounded conductors from the meter? Please explain in more detail. tx rbj

 

[tom baker]

Grounding conductor
Grounding Electrode conductor
or
Equipment grounding conductor

Which of the above do you need to splice?

 

[electricalperson]

if you need a irriversible connection, are you able to hypress terminals to the conductors and put them on a bus bar inside the trough? i believe only thing that needs to have an irriversible connection is the grounding electrode conductor.
are you switching the neutrals?

 

[infinity]

I'm not sure if I understand your setup, but taps from the GEC to the 200 amp ATS's are not required to be irreversible. A simple split bolt for each tap from the GEC will suffice.

 

[jrannis]

Almost every manufacturer of crimp products has a "T" splice. Or you can cad weld it. I dont think you have a big problem on your hands.

 

[bawz]

The generator only has one connection point for the neutral conductor. In the trough just before entering both ATS's, the neutral feed from the gen is spliced or tapped with a split bolt. Then connects to the neutral bus in each of the 2 ATS's. The neutrals are not switched in the ATS's.
The local inspector said the grounding conductor from the generator can not be spliced unless irreversal splices are used.
The neutral conductor from the generator can not be spliced unless using irreversal splices. I like the idea to use compression ends, connected to a bus bar in the trough. Any further ideas or comments as to proceeding with this method?
I have never cad welded aluminum, is that possible? Even if at all possible I stay away from cad welding, although it is fun from time to time!

 

[tom baker]

I am still not sure what you are trying to splice. Is it a neutral ? A grounding conductor is the wire that goes to a grounding electrode.

 

[infinity]

The local inspector said the grounding conductor from the generator can not be spliced unless irreversible splices are used.
The neutral conductor from the generator can not be spliced unless using irreversible splices.

Did he cite a code article? 250.64(D) permits taps from the GEC without the use of irreversible connectors.

 

[bawz]

whoops!

grounded conductor is the neutral, grounding conductor is the ground or equipment ground.
That is where the communication was breaking down with the inspector.
Ms Inspector is talking about the grounding conductor..
I guess I was thinking she meant the neutral conductor. I need to talk with the inspector again to clear it up.

 

[bawz]

Did he cite a code article? 250.64(D) permits taps from the GEC without the use of irreversible connectors.

SHe did not cite any code, I need to get more details from the inspector

I just looked at 250.64 (d), I didn't understand it as you just stated.

The last part reads:
The tap conductors shall be connected to the grounding electrode conductor in such a manner that the grounding electrode conductor remains with out a splice or joint.

 

[LarryFine]

The tap conductors shall be connected to the grounding electrode conductor in such a manner that the grounding electrode conductor remains with out a splice or joint.

That means the method you use to attach the tap should not compromise or damage the main run.

 

[infinity]

SHe did not cite any code, I need to get more details from the inspector

I just looked at 250.64 (d), I didn't understand it as you just stated.

The last part reads:
The tap conductors shall be connected to the grounding electrode conductor in such a manner that the grounding electrode conductor remains with out a splice or joint.

As Larry stated the GEC cannot be spliced but it certainly can be tapped. This means that you can't cut the GEC and splice on your taps.

 

[gndrod]

Permanent compression bonds

Permanent compression bonds

The generator only has one connection point for the neutral conductor. In the trough just before entering both ATS's, the neutral feed from the gen is spliced or tapped with a split bolt. Then connects to the neutral bus in each of the 2 ATS's. The neutrals are not switched in the ATS's.
The local inspector said the grounding conductor from the generator can not be spliced unless irreversal splices are used.
The neutral conductor from the generator can not be spliced unless using irreversal splices. I like the idea to use compression ends, connected to a bus bar in the trough. Any further ideas or comments as to proceeding with this method?
I have never cad welded aluminum, is that possible? Even if at all possible I stay away from cad welding, although it is fun from time to time!

Using a H-Frame Compression connector may be another way of 'paralleling' the window stripped neutrals without series crimping. This includes Al cable. rbj

 

[bawz]

That means the method you use to attach the tap should not compromise or damage the main run.

Ah, I see what you are talking about!
So the gec could have continued through the trough uncut, while a tap could have connected to the other ats.
I read that several times, I still would not have got it unless some one explained it. Thanks

 

[infinity]

Ah, I see what you are talking about!
So the gec could have continued through the trough uncut, while a tap could have connected to the other ats.
I read that several times, I still would not have got it unless some one explained it. Thanks

Yes the full size GEC would be one continuous piece with smaller sized conductors tapped to it.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Could 250.64(C)(3) help you?