Is 110.26 just a suggestion?

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iwire

iwire

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Went to a service call in a building that I installed the FACP in. There was a bit more clearance when I did the installation then there is now.

LowesWarehamFA.jpg


I would consider this a direct violation of 110.26s 'No Storage' requirement but apparently neither the fire dept or inspector agree with me.

There is a railing keeping the carts about 1' back from the panel face. A tight fit for a guy like me. :D
 
iwire said:
Went to a service call in a building that I installed the FACP in. There was a bit more clearance when I did the installation then there is now.

LowesWarehamFA.jpg


I would consider this a direct violation of 110.26s 'No Storage' requirement but apparently neither the fire dept or inspector agree with me.

There is a railing keeping the carts about 1' back from the panel face. A tight fit for a guy like me. :D
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Is it unsafe in some way? Would not be all that hard to move the carts out of the way. I tend to agree that it appears to violate the storage clause, although its hard for me to argue that it creates any kind of hazard in this case.

I have a hard time getting real worked up about trivial code violations.
 
petersonra said:
Is it unsafe in some way? Would not be all that hard to move the carts out of the way. I tend to agree that it appears to violate the storage clause, although its hard for me to argue that it creates any kind of hazard in this case.

I have a hard time getting real worked up about trivial code violations.
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It actually is kind of hard to move that many carts, where do you move them to?

Unsafe? Maybe not. Trivial? I don't see it that way.

Direct access to the fire alarm control panel rates pretty high IMO. In my area this is very unusual, in most cases the first time the FD responded to any FACP problem they would get the carts permanently removed, at least one row of them.
 
iwire said:
It actually is kind of hard to move that many carts, where do you move them to?
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I would think you could just roll them out of the way if you had to work on the panels.

The FD issue had not occured to me. I think that is a much more impressive argument as they might need quick access to the FA panels in an emergency.
 
petersonra said:
The FD issue had not occured to me. I think that is a much more impressive argument as they might need quick access to the FA panels in an emergency.
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The key here,is as you state "emergency",these types of violations exist everywhere and only seem to be addressed @ the worst possible times-usually under an emergency situation.Building owners and there operations people tend to ignore potential downfalls by not providing adequate clearences-in lieu of the funtionability of there operations.
 
iwire said:
There is a railing keeping the carts about 1' back from the panel face.
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Then without even considering the carts, that railing is within the working space, and I surmise it is a permanent installation.

For those who consider this a minor issue, and not really a safety concern, let me offer two thoughts.

First, if something is stored in the working space, and if a maintenance tech needs to open the panel to perform a task, there is a very real possibility that that person is going to think it inconvenient to have to move the stuff out of the way, and perhaps after all it is not worth the effort, for this will be a quick task, and I?m on a tight schedule, and my company won?t get paid any extra for the extra time I have to spend moving this stuff and moving it back again. That thought is very likely to get that person killed. I call this an extreme safety hazard.

Secondly, I learned from Mike Holt, in person, the true nature of the safety hazards involved in having inadequate working clearance. I attended his Grounding & Bonding Seminar a few years back. During a break in the seminar, he told his ?I am alive because I fell? story. It was a serious eye opener. I now look upon the ?working clearance? from the following perspective: If a person comes into contact with an energized part inside a panel, the electric current is going to be high enough that the muscles will contract too strongly for the person to be able to let go. The brain will be issuing a frantic command to the hand, and the hand is going to disobey that command, since it is getting a stronger command from the energized wire. In a very short time, the person will lose total control of all muscles, and will start to collapse. If the person is very, very lucky, the weight of the falling body will be able to finally pull the hand away from the panel. This is a real story ? Mike really is alive today because he fell, some years ago, when his hand came into contact with a live circuit. As he tells the story, he was saying to himself, ?Let go, you idiot, or you?re going to die.? He couldn?t let go, but he did eventually fall, and that pulled his hand away. But what if there is a railing (such as Bob described) within the working space area? Then the person will only fall far enough to come into contact with that railing. That will not be far enough to allow his falling weight to force his hand away from the live circuit.

Bottom Line: It?s not ?working space,? but rather is ?room to fall.? When I design electrical rooms and electrical distribution system, I rigorously defend the integrity of that space.
 
I agree with Bob on this being a violation. But it's not his problem. Have seen guard rails in front of panels and where easily moved by hand out of the work area. Would suggest warning the manager (who will not care) and the fire marshall. Beyond that it's out of your hands. Have seen many panels blocked with storage. Best ever was at a gas bottling plant. Pallets of gas filled bottles sitting in front of 480 panels. Yes plenty of time for me to have them moved to do my work but in an emergancy you just created a hazard and perhaps a death.
5 or 6 carts in way i would not care but 200 i am not moving
 
Wasn't the potential working clearance problem apparent when you installed the FACP in the cart storage area? Unless they stored carts elsewhere when you wired it?
 
Cow said:
Wasn't the potential working clearance problem apparent when you installed the FACP in the cart storage area?
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The FACP space was indicated on the prints and the area was designated as cart storage. Location was not my choice, 15' to the right would have been ideal. :smile:

Mixed179.jpg


Cow said:
Unless they stored carts elsewhere when you wired it?
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No carts to store. :smile:

Mixed181.jpg


Why do they call them 'white boxes'? :D
 
I can't see the railing in the picture, so perhaps it is down near the floor, just high enough to keep the carts away from the panels. If that is the case, it seems unlikely it would interfere with someone falling away from the FA panels if that needed to happen.

I can't argue with it being generally a good idea to maintain working space around electrical equipment. However, I have a hard time with the idea that a presumably well trained technician would be too stupid or too lazy to roll the carts out of the way, so that is why the carts should not be there.
 
This seems to vary from store to store, depending on the installing contractor I guess? Some Lowes have the FA setup where you have it, and others have it in to the left of the entrance to the "returns" vestibule." I guess not all stores are perfectly identical so that must explain it.
 
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