Is a junction box with a switched wire in it a lighting outlet

[Bjenks]

I have an architect who is designing a multi-dwelling unit with no switch receptacle outlets per nec 210.70 and except for the hallways and bathrooms every room has a ceiling junction box on a switch. I see the definition of a Lighting Outlet is intended for the direct connection of a lamp holder or luminaire. So I should assume that you really don't need to connect a light fixture or fan to it for 210.70 compliance? As long as there is a junction box with a switched conductor going to it they are fine? I feel like I am defeating the purpose of the code as a switch receptacle is an easy lamp connection while a junction box would/should require an electrician to install.

When a person rents this dwelling unit, it seems that you won't be able to see in any room without a flashlight. But maybe I am just being too much of an engineer on it.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I am confused. Are you saying the project will be finaled with those ceiling boxes blanked off?
If that is the intention I would think that would be a AHJ ruling. I do not see that you have to have the surface mount lights installed. Most jurisdictions would want them because they want to see the full installations. Here on the west coast they need to be installed to pass the energy code.



There is not rule that says you need to have a switched receptacle. Just a switched outlet.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

As the code is written it is not required to have a light fixture installed at the ceiling outlet however I would check with the authority having jurisdiction because I would bet that many of them would require a fixture to be installed.

 

[Bjenks]

There is not rule that says you need to have a switched receptacle. Just a switched outlet.

210.70 (1) Exception 1: one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.

Yes, they want me to create permit drawings showing just a junction box that is wired to a switch. No other light fixture or switched receptacle.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

210.70 (1) Exception 1: one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.

Yes, they want me to create permit drawings showing just a junction box that is wired to a switch. No other light fixture or switched receptacle.

I believe Iwire said they did that all the time when he wired apartments. No light just the ceiling outlet with a blank plate. I guess they are trying to save money and let the home owners buy their own fixtures.

 

[GoldDigger]

But in an *apartment* there are no resident homeowners and any fixture the renters install becomes the property of the landlord.

Tapatalk!

 

[iwire]

But in an *apartment* there are no resident homeowners and any fixture the renters install becomes the property of the landlord.

Tapatalk!

For me it was condos but even in an apartment there is no reason a renters fixture becomes property of the landlord.

 

[GoldDigger]

For me it was condos but even in an apartment there is no reason a renters fixture becomes property of the landlord.

The rule in California is that anything screwed or otherwise fastened in other than a temporary way becomes part of the real property.
That means, in fact, that hooks nailed to the wall become the landlords property but anything hung on that hook does not. In practice a landlord will instead require the tenant to remove the hooks too.

This also means that if you show your house with a family heirloom chandelier in place and do not specifically exclude it in both listing and sale contract it goes with the house.
In the case of rentals a landlord may either explicitly or informally waive that right. But in the absence of that the law is clear.
If the tenant brings in a washer and dryer, it remains his.
If the tenant replaces a built in dishwasher with one of their own choice, it becomes property of the landlord unless specified to the contrary in writing in the lease.
In real estate law verbal agreements are not worth the paper they are printed on.


Tapatalk!

 

[Sierrasparky]

210.70 (1) Exception 1: one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.

Yes, they want me to create permit drawings showing just a junction box that is wired to a switch. No other light fixture or switched receptacle.

I believe that is what I said. You never need a switched receptacle but you can if you want and it will count as a switched outlet.

 

[iwire]

:lol:California.

 

[kwired]

As the code is written it is not required to have a light fixture installed at the ceiling outlet however I would check with the authority having jurisdiction because I would bet that many of them would require a fixture to be installed.

NEC would not require a fixture to be installed, just that a lighting outlet be provided, so any requirement to install a fixture comes from something other then NEC.

The rule in California is that anything screwed or otherwise fastened in other than a temporary way becomes part of the real property.
That means, in fact, that hooks nailed to the wall become the landlords property but anything hung on that hook does not. In practice a landlord will instead require the tenant to remove the hooks too.

This also means that if you show your house with a family heirloom chandelier in place and do not specifically exclude it in both listing and sale contract it goes with the house.
In the case of rentals a landlord may either explicitly or informally waive that right. But in the absence of that the law is clear.
If the tenant brings in a washer and dryer, it remains his.
If the tenant replaces a built in dishwasher with one of their own choice, it becomes property of the landlord unless specified to the contrary in writing in the lease.
In real estate law verbal agreements are not worth the paper they are printed on.


Tapatalk!

A tenant likely would need owner permission to replace a real property component as well, so installing said luminaire or appliances in general wouldn't be permitted without proper permission. Whether or not the tenant has permission to remove it when they leave may be subject to contracts or other agreements, but if allowed they likely need to replace with what was there to begin with or equivalent.

Add: this gets more complex with commercial property, as a lot of equipment installed is often the tenant's equipment and will leave with the tenant when they leave.

I suppose there may be either laws or contracts that may state what needs to remain a part of the property without owner approval to make changes, or the operating condition of some of those items.

 

[curt swartz]

:lol:California.

I don't think this is unique in California. I think the law is pretty much the same in all states.

I did a quick online search but didn't come up with and exact law to post. I did find a few posting from Massachusetts attorneys stating that anyting attached to the building including light fixtures becomes part of the real property unless it is specifically excluded at the time of sale.

 

[iwire]

I don't think this is unique in California. I think the law is pretty much the isame in all states.

I did a quick online search but didn't come up with and exact law to post. I did find a few posting from Massachusetts attorneys stating that anyting attached to the building including light fixtures becomes part of the real property unless it is specifically excluded at the time of sale.

Good luck collecting all those large screen TVs.

 

[GoldDigger]

The TV can go but the wall mount would have to stay. Subtle distinction.

Tapatalk!

 

[kwired]

I don't think this is unique in California. I think the law is pretty much the same in all states.

I did a quick online search but didn't come up with and exact law to post. I did find a few posting from Massachusetts attorneys stating that anyting attached to the building including light fixtures becomes part of the real property unless it is specifically excluded at the time of sale.

Who wants those pictures of someone else's ugly kids they were forced to leave attached to the wall