Is a service conductor not part of the service?

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00crashtest

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In Article 100, titled Definitions, of the 2020 Edition of the National Electric Code, the definition of premises wiring includes "wiring from the service point" to the outlets.
The other definitions are:
service:
The conductors and equipment connecting the serving utility to the wiring system of the premises served.
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service conductors:
The conductors from the service point to the service disconnecting means.
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service conductors, overhead:
The overhead conductors between the service point and the point of first connection to the service-entrance conductors at the building or other structure.
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service point:
The point of connection between the facilities of the serving utility and the premises wiring.
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service drop:
The overhead conductors between the serving utility and the service point.
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service equipment:
The necessary equipment, consisting of a circuit breaker(s) or switch(es) and fuse(s) and their accessories, connected to the serving utility and intended to constitute the main control and disconnect of the serving utility.
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In practice, the service point is never located closer to the home than the connection with the service-entrance conductors and never located further than the connection of the conductors for a public road with the conductors for a private road. All of these questions are regarding NEC definition only.
1. Does this mean that the service conductors are always part of the premises wiring and never part of the service, making the term an oxymoron?
2. Does the same apply to the service equipment because it is located downstream of the service point?
3. Are service-entrance conductors (strictly defined term by the electrical industry globally, so no ambiguity here) a subset of service conductors?
 
00crashtest said:
1. Does this mean that the service conductors are always part of the premises wiring and never part of the service, making the term an oxymoron?
2. Does the same apply to the service equipment because it is located downstream of the service point?
3. Are service-entrance conductors (strictly defined term by the electrical industry globally, so no ambiguity here) a subset of service conductors?
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What is the point of these questions? Is there something specific that you're trying to figure out?
 
00crashtest said:
In Article 100, titled Definitions, of the 2020 Edition of the National Electric Code, the definition of premises wiring includes "wiring from the service point" to the outlets.
The other definitions are:
service:

service conductors:

service conductors, overhead:

service point:

service drop:

service equipment:


In practice, the service point is never located closer to the home than the connection with the service-entrance conductors and never located further than the connection of the conductors for a public road with the conductors for a private road. All of these questions are regarding NEC definition only.
1. Does this mean that the service conductors are always part of the premises wiring and never part of the service, making the term an oxymoron?
2. Does the same apply to the service equipment because it is located downstream of the service point?
3. Are service-entrance conductors (strictly defined term by the electrical industry globally, so no ambiguity here) a subset of service conductors?
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1. Service conductors are part of the service and the premise wiring system per the definitions.

2. Yes service equipment is both part of the service and the premise wiring system.

3. Yes
 
electrofelon said:
1. Service conductors are part of the service and the premise wiring system per the definitions.

2. Yes service equipment is both part of the service and the premise wiring system.
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So does this mean the service does not end at the service point? If yes, then does the service terminate at and include the service equipment?
 
The definition of "service" is not that clear and you have to look at some of the other definitions such as service equipment to determine where the service ends. I would say the service includes the service equipment but nothing downstream of that.
 
electrofelon said:
1. Service conductors are part of the service and the premise wiring system per the definitions.

2. Yes service equipment is both part of the service and the premise wiring system.
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Since there is overlap of service and premises wiring between the service point and service equipment, does this mean the "premises wiring" is different from "wiring system of the premises served" because the definition of service seems to imply that the latter is only the part of the premises wiring that isn't also part of the service (i.e., only the side downstream of the service disconnecting means)?
 
None of the terms in the OP include equipment or wiring that is on the utility side of the service point. The service is a subset of the premises wiring system, basically the portion that has no OCPD.

In case you didn't see them in your review, there are also definitions of service entrance conductors and premises wiring system.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
None of the terms in the OP include equipment or wiring that is on the utility side of the service point.
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Except service drop, which is between the facilities of the serving utility (power pole) and the service point. On the other hand, overhead service conductors is defined as between the service point and the service-entrance conductors.

So, do the same set of conductors differ between being a service drop and an overhead service conductor only because of the location of the service point?

Since the service drop is defined as being upstream of the service point, does it mean that it is not a service conductor at all, let alone an overhead service conductor?
 
wwhitney said:
The service is a subset of the premises wiring system, basically the portion that has no OCPD.
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I wouldn't say it's exactly that (for the NEC only, not what the po. co. or state's NEC-based electrical code says) because service drop is defined as upstream of the service point, and premises wiring is defined as downstream of the service point.
 
00crashtest said:
Since the service drop is defined as being upstream of the service point, does it mean that it is not a service conductor at all, let alone an overhead service conductor?
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All conductors from a power company's utility transformer to the first overcurrent protection device are considered service conductor.

What they are called at their different points along the way depends on whether you're talking about the utility side or the customer side of the connection points.

JAP>
 
jap said:
All conductors from a power company's utility transformer to the first overcurrent protection device are considered service conductor.

What they are called at their different points along the way depends on whether you're talking about the utility side or the customer side of the connection points.

JAP>
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Only talking about customer side, because NEC does not cover the utility side. However, the local government may still choose to adopt certain provisions of the NEC for power companies operating inside it. Strictly speaking, I am not talking about customer side itself, because AHJ might have not chosen to adopt certain definitions of the NEC. Strictly speaking, I am talking about NEC only.
 
jap said:
All conductors from a power company's utility transformer to the first overcurrent protection device are considered service conductor.
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Are you implying that even those upstream of the service point are considered service conductors?
 
00crashtest said:
Only talking about customer side, because NEC does not cover the utility side. However, the local government may still choose to adopt certain provisions of the NEC for power companies operating inside it. Strictly speaking, I am not talking about customer side itself, because AHJ might have not chosen to adopt certain definitions of the NEC. Strictly speaking, I am talking about NEC only.
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What's the purpose of these questions?
 
Little Bill said:
What's the purpose of these questions?
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To ask about the definition of service, really. All the other definitions are very clear, logically speaking, because they are all defined directly relative to the service point. Only the definition of service does not define in terms of the service point, not even indirectly. If it had contained "premises wiring", it would have been very clear, logically speaking, whether or not the service includes service conductors. However, they used "wiring system of the premises served" instead, so I want to confirm whether or not they worded it that way in order to extend the scope of "service" downstream of the service point.
 
00crashtest said:
Except service drop, which is between the facilities of the serving utility (power pole) and the service point.
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Thank you, I missed that one.
00crashtest said:
So, do the same set of conductors differ between being a service drop and an overhead service conductor only because of the location of the service point?
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Yes. The service point defines what rules apply. And sizing may be quite different on either side of the service point.
00crashtest said:
Since the service drop is defined as being upstream of the service point, does it mean that it is not a service conductor at all, let alone an overhead service conductor?
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Correct.

Cheers, Wayne
 
jap said:
I am.

JAP>
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Then why are including such irrelevant answers, when I said,
00crashtest said:
All of these questions are regarding NEC definition only.
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Conductors upstream of the service point are definitely not service conductors under the NEC (not necessarily the NEC-derived legal codes) because the NEC explicitly defines service conductors as downstream of the service point.
 
One other comment I would like to add is regarding "overhead service conductors". These are actually quite rare around here. Most serving overhead conductors are service drops and are on the utility side of the service point. Where you would actually have overhead service conductors is say a customer owned Pole that is between the utility pole and the house, with the overhead service conductor is being the conductors between the house and the customer owned Pole.
 
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