In the latest newsletter we receive information about lighting ground rods and why there needs to be a bond wire. If we are that specific on it, why do we not call the green wire in residential wiring the bond wire? Why do we not discuss the same touch potential for all remote (out of buliding) installations as though the same as the lighting poles? Is there a lack of consistency in our terminology or is it just me?
Is it ground or bond?
- Thread starter gduffy
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charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Is it ground or bond?
If you feel strongly about the subject, submit a comment during the comment period (which is right now). The Code Making Panels really do pay attention to the comments that people make. It is not too late to push it through, after all, it passed but didn't get the two-thirds that is required to pass.
If you feel strongly about the subject, submit a comment during the comment period (which is right now). The Code Making Panels really do pay attention to the comments that people make. It is not too late to push it through, after all, it passed but didn't get the two-thirds that is required to pass.
Re: Is it ground or bond?
A bond conductor is a short circuit. A ground conductor is an inductor.
This is the same terminology as day one, and would be technically incorrect to change the definition.
Example;
An inductor feeds the electrode, a bond shorts multiple electrodes together.
A bond conductor is a short circuit. A ground conductor is an inductor.
This is the same terminology as day one, and would be technically incorrect to change the definition.
Example;
An inductor feeds the electrode, a bond shorts multiple electrodes together.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Is it ground or bond?
To me, an inductor is anything that exhibits the property of ?inductance.? That property can be roughly defined as, ?The ability to store energy in a magnetic field.? Our most common examples are the coils of wire that appear in generators, motors, transformers, and relays. Any wire of any length will have some inductance, however small. The inductance of long transmission lines is very significant. But even the nail clippers in your pocket will have some inductance. (BTW, and certainly off the subject, but there is also a calculable value of capacitance between that same pair of nail clippers in your pocket and the pen in my pocket.)
But the fact that a ground wire has a calculable and measurable value of inductance is not what makes it a ground wire. A bond wire has inductance as well. What we want in a ground wire is a small value of ?impedance,? the term that includes resistance and the impact of inductance and capacitance.
So let me ask what you mean by, ?A ground conductor is an inductor.?
Bennie: I have seen you post these sentences before. The first makes sense to me; the second uses a word in a context that I do not understand. Do you have a different understanding of the word ?inductor? than I?
To me, an inductor is anything that exhibits the property of ?inductance.? That property can be roughly defined as, ?The ability to store energy in a magnetic field.? Our most common examples are the coils of wire that appear in generators, motors, transformers, and relays. Any wire of any length will have some inductance, however small. The inductance of long transmission lines is very significant. But even the nail clippers in your pocket will have some inductance. (BTW, and certainly off the subject, but there is also a calculable value of capacitance between that same pair of nail clippers in your pocket and the pen in my pocket.)
But the fact that a ground wire has a calculable and measurable value of inductance is not what makes it a ground wire. A bond wire has inductance as well. What we want in a ground wire is a small value of ?impedance,? the term that includes resistance and the impact of inductance and capacitance.
So let me ask what you mean by, ?A ground conductor is an inductor.?
Re: Is it ground or bond?
A bonding conductor will not have measurable voltage difference from one end to the other. Therefore it is a short circuit.
A ground electrode conductor will have a measurable voltage difference from one end to the other. Therefore it is an inductor.
An equipment ground conductor, and a ground electrode conductor, will both carry electrical current under some conditions. There is never equal potential at the ends.
A bonding conductor will not have measurable voltage difference from one end to the other. Therefore it is a short circuit.
A ground electrode conductor will have a measurable voltage difference from one end to the other. Therefore it is an inductor.
An equipment ground conductor, and a ground electrode conductor, will both carry electrical current under some conditions. There is never equal potential at the ends.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Is it ground or bond?
Bennie,
There are any number of conditions under which a bonding conductor will carry current. If the bonding conductor could never carry current, why would it ever be installed? All conductors that carry current have a "measurable voltage difference from one end to the other".
Don
Bennie,
There are any number of conditions under which a bonding conductor will carry current. If the bonding conductor could never carry current, why would it ever be installed? All conductors that carry current have a "measurable voltage difference from one end to the other".
Don
karl riley
Senior Member
Re: Is it ground or bond?
Bennie, can I induce you to give a definition of inductor? And inductance?
Karl
Bennie, can I induce you to give a definition of inductor? And inductance?
Karl
Re: Is it ground or bond?
In an electrical circuit any conductor that has a magnetic field is an inductor.
Inductance is the induced voltage or back voltage created by a changing magnetic field.
A DC conductor is an inductor but has no inductance.
Inductance opposes the source that created the magnetic field.
In an electrical circuit any conductor that has a magnetic field is an inductor.
Inductance is the induced voltage or back voltage created by a changing magnetic field.
A DC conductor is an inductor but has no inductance.
Inductance opposes the source that created the magnetic field.
karl riley
Senior Member
Re: Is it ground or bond?
OK, so all conductors are inductors?
Even DC conductors that have no inductance?
K
OK, so all conductors are inductors?
Even DC conductors that have no inductance?
K
Ed MacLaren
Senior Member
Re: Is it ground or bond?
I hope you don't think I'm nit-picking here, but the instructor in me keeps telling me to suggest a few changes in the following statements, in the interest of accuracy.
1. "Inductance is the induced voltage or back voltage created by a changing magnetic field."
Inductance is the property of a coil (or conductor) that enables an induced voltage (back voltage, or cemf) to be created within it when the current through it changes, whether that current is AC or DC.
Of course, Direct Current changes only when it is turned on, and when it is turned off, while AC is constantly changing.
2. "A DC conductor is an inductor but has no inductance."
See response to #1 above.
3. "Inductance opposes the source that created the magnetic field."
The induced voltage is 180 deg. out of phase with the applied voltage, so it opposes the change in current that caused the induced voltage in an inductor. This opposition is called Inductive Reactance.
Ed
I hope you don't think I'm nit-picking here, but the instructor in me keeps telling me to suggest a few changes in the following statements, in the interest of accuracy.
1. "Inductance is the induced voltage or back voltage created by a changing magnetic field."
Inductance is the property of a coil (or conductor) that enables an induced voltage (back voltage, or cemf) to be created within it when the current through it changes, whether that current is AC or DC.
Of course, Direct Current changes only when it is turned on, and when it is turned off, while AC is constantly changing.
2. "A DC conductor is an inductor but has no inductance."
See response to #1 above.
3. "Inductance opposes the source that created the magnetic field."
The induced voltage is 180 deg. out of phase with the applied voltage, so it opposes the change in current that caused the induced voltage in an inductor. This opposition is called Inductive Reactance.
Ed
karl riley
Senior Member
Re: Is it ground or bond?
I was thinking about the word we choose to refer to an electrical component. Since a run of wire both conducts and induces, we might choose to call it an inductor. But as I thought about it, we name a thing by its job. If its main job is to conduct, it is a conductor.
If it is a coil whose main job is due to its inductance, it is an inductor. If the coil is in a transformer, the inductance which makes the transformer work is subservient to its main job of transforming voltage, so we call it a transformer.
(Once when I was in a truck stop, driving coast-to-coast, I was aware that certain seats were reserved for "drivers". Well OK, I was a driver too, in my trusty '79 van. But it wasn't my job. Driving was incidental, so I was not a "driver").
We get surprised when an incidental quality becomes important. For instance, when some current gets diverted away from its circuit, and its magnetic field is no longer canceled by the other circuit conductors, suddenly its inductance becomes active. And unexpected.
Well, enough electrical philosophizing for now.
Karl
I was thinking about the word we choose to refer to an electrical component. Since a run of wire both conducts and induces, we might choose to call it an inductor. But as I thought about it, we name a thing by its job. If its main job is to conduct, it is a conductor.
If it is a coil whose main job is due to its inductance, it is an inductor. If the coil is in a transformer, the inductance which makes the transformer work is subservient to its main job of transforming voltage, so we call it a transformer.
(Once when I was in a truck stop, driving coast-to-coast, I was aware that certain seats were reserved for "drivers". Well OK, I was a driver too, in my trusty '79 van. But it wasn't my job. Driving was incidental, so I was not a "driver").
We get surprised when an incidental quality becomes important. For instance, when some current gets diverted away from its circuit, and its magnetic field is no longer canceled by the other circuit conductors, suddenly its inductance becomes active. And unexpected.
Well, enough electrical philosophizing for now.
Karl
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