Is it really that much harder to do it right?

[walkerj]

Heck I am only 44 and ask myself questions like that often .............. there really is no hope, we will be doing this until we can't.

You guys aren't gonna like this.

I'm only 24 and I ask myself questions like that..

What will I do when I really am old like you guys?:grin:

 

[peter d]

Once again, this logic is absurd. We have metal NM connectors, metal old work boxes, metal new work boxes, and on and on all designed for use with NM cable. Once upon a time metal boxes, not plastic, were the norm.

It simply take competent installers (which I am not because I'm a hack) to install them correctly.

 

[Buck Parrish]

The NM prefers plastic.

I know things

The 1G boxes we use are 20.3 cu in. They seem pretty big/deep.

* technically it says 10, #14's....I just looked at one.

your 20.3 cu in is a little shy counting one ground

 

[peter d]

No need for Nukes, they'll all burn to the ground anyway.

Yup. In fact, I boycott any store or building that I know that is wired in NM cable because of the extreme fire danger.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Once again, this logic is absurd. We have metal NM connectors, metal old work boxes, metal new work boxes, and on and on all designed for use with NM cable. Once upon a time metal boxes, not plastic, were the norm.

It simply take competent installers (which I am not because I'm a hack) to install them correctly.

A shallow 4" sq is good for a basement furred out wall. With a plaster ring. They ussually work perfect. And you can shoot them to the wall.

 

[walkerj]

Once again, this logic is absurd. We have metal NM connectors, metal old work boxes, metal new work boxes, and on and on all designed for use with NM cable. Once upon a time metal boxes, not plastic, were the norm.

It simply take competent installers (which I am not because I'm a hack) to install them correctly.

I agree.

I don't really like the plastic box facing up in the attic method.

I won't say I haven't done it, but I would rather a 4" sq. box with a metal cover.

 

[220/221]

your 20.3 cu in is a little shy counting one ground

I'll get over it. I haven't followed the NEC since 1974.

It simply take competent installers (which I am not because I'm a hack) to install them correctly

I won't argue with that. My point is that plastic boxes are easier, less expensive and safer....more safe...whatever. I see no reason to put plastic sheathed cable into a metal box. If I need more room I use a 2G box.

 

[peter d]

I'll get over it. I haven't followed the NEC since 1974.

At least you're having a sense of humor about it now.

I won't argue with that. My point is that plastic boxes are easier, less expensive and safer....more safe...whatever. I see no reason to put plastic sheathed cable into a metal box. If I need more room I use a 2G box.

And I agree...I prefer plastic for those reasons. But I'll use metal too if need be...a good hack knows how many cables he can stuff into a shallow handy box, you know?

 

[iaov]

Heck I am only 44 and ask myself questions like that often .............. there really is no hope, we will be doing this until we can't.

Not only will we be doing this till we can't, chances are good I'll probably be found dead there or under a crawl space!!

 

[Karl H]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around a commercial building
wired with NM cable. No drop ceilings? Where do you guys get
500 Kcmil NM cable for your chillers and cooling towers etc?
Wait, this is New England, I don't think there would be a need for Chillers
there, just open a window.

 

[peter d]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around a commercial building
wired with NM cable. No drop ceilings? Where do you guys get
500 Kcmil NM cable for your chillers and cooling towers etc?
Wait, this is New England, I don't think there would be a need for Chillers
there, just open a window.

The large feeders are in EMT. But all branch wiring is done in NM cable, as long as the required AWG is available in NM.

As for drop ceilings, we use MC now. But as I said we still have a gazillion existing buildings wired in NM cable when it was allowed above drop ceilings.

 

[Karl H]

The large feeders are in EMT. But all branch wiring is done in NM cable, as long as the required AWG is available in NM.

As for drop ceilings, we use MC now. But as I said we still have a gazillion existing buildings wired in NM cable when it was allowed above drop ceilings.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I have never seen NM cable
(that wasn't installed by a hack) in a commercial building before.

 

[480sparky]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I have never seen NM cable
(that wasn't installed by a hack) in a commercial building before.

If a hack needed 500 kcmil NM, he'd just parallel 122 14's.

 

[B4T]

Yup. In fact, I boycott any store or building that I know that is wired in NM cable because of the extreme fire danger.

Peter.. don't forget the the wildman running amuck with a chainsaw that will slice into the exposed NM cable :grin:

 

[Hendrix]

You guys aren't gonna like this.

I'm only 24 and I ask myself questions like that..

What will I do when I really am old like you guys?:grin:

Drop back and punt :wink:

 

[hillbilly1]

So how do you put a 2-gang box in a 1?" thick wall? My first choice would be a 4sq box and a mud ring.

The resi guys I know don't.:roll: I use a double gang wiremold box, probally not legal because it not listed to be recessed, but has a lot more room.

So.......... who sells panelboards made of plastic?

I remember about 10-20 years ago I think it was Challenger or some one else made a singlephase loadcenter with a plastic enclosure and cover. seen them advertised, but never installed.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around a commercial building
wired with NM cable. No drop ceilings?

I have seen Zayres stores in North Carolina I believe it was, wired in romex, they run conduit out of the panels, into a wireway, then changed to romex out of the back going across the suspended ceiling like spagehtti!

 

[cowboyjwc]

As an inspector I've been surprised by how many times I've asked myself the same question. I've been in the trades for 30 years, but I went to a service change once that was so bad, that I couldn't even figure out where to start writting, I finally had to come back to the office and talk to my boss. The problem was that, people like code sections and they don't have one that says, please tear out and hire someone that knows what they're doing.:smile:

I did end up having to have the meter pulled to get compliance.

 

[jap]

I'd have to say I made a change. I used to use 4s Metal boxes all the time with NM but had instances where the Romex Connector bit into the NM without me knowing it until I turned the breaker on. They dont make NM near as durable as they used to. I then went to metal boxes with plastic NM clamps but still had to Bond the box to ground. Now I try to stay away from metal boxes all together when it comes to NM,I go with plastic as much as I can.