Is replacing/upgrading a power panel required when replacing the service line?

[tim969]

Not sure which part of NEC ever mentions it, but if the service line is to be replaced, does the power panel have to be replaced too? If not, why is it required to have AFCIs to replace the current ones?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

No, the nec does not require the panel to be replaced unless there is some reason it won't work- perhaps an old fuse panel, etc. AFCI are not required to be replaced unless there is work down on the circuit such as adding a new receptacle or switch.

Btw, welcome to the forum

 

[ramsy]

..AFCI are not required to be replaced unless there is work down on the circuit such as adding a new receptacle or switch..

Insurance adjusters, inspectors, and EC's may look more closely at renovation re-work than others.

Missing Tamper Resistant plugs after remodels is the 1st clue the place is riddled with code violations, not just missing AFCI's in the fuse box, or reset buttons, per replacement code 406.4(D)..

The rocket-scientist re-modelers give themselves away by grabbing the cheapest plugs stocked on store shelves.

The wrong plug violates fire code, voids insurance claims, and renders owner's powerless to negotiate favorable settlements with adjusters.

 

[tim969]

That's right. The inspector wanted hard wired fire alarms installed for every(?) work that requires a permit, isn't it ture?

But this time, we are not messing up anything inside the house, just the service line as the old aluminium wires have been corroded. We are not modifying the circuits, so, is the inspector reasonable to require AFCIs?

Insurance adjusters, inspectors, and EC's may look more closely at renovation re-work than others.

Missing Tamper Resistant plugs after remodels is the 1st clue the place is riddled with code violations, not just missing AFCI's in the fuse box, or reset buttons, per replacement code 406.4(D)..

The rocket-scientist re-modelers give themselves away by grabbing the cheapest plugs stocked on store shelves.

The wrong plug violates fire code, voids insurance claims, and renders owner's powerless to negotiate favorable settlements with adjusters.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

No it is clear in the nec that afci's are not required. Where in the bolded area does it state afci is required for service change. You are not modifying the circuit

Look at the exception-- NOT required unless you add an outlet or run more than 6' of wire to extend the circuit

210.12(D) Branch Circuit Extensions or Modifications — DwellingUnits and Dormitory Units.
In any of the areas specified in 210.12(A) or (B), where branch-circuit wiring is modified,
replaced, or extended, the branch circuit shall be protected by one of the following:


(1) A listed combination-type AFCI located at the origin of
the branch circuit

(2) A listed outlet branch-circuit-type AFCI located at the first
receptacle outlet of the existing branch circuit


Exception: AFCI protection shall not be required where the extension of
the existing conductors is not more than 1.8 m (6 ft) and does not
include any additional outlets or devices.

 

[david]

Not sure which part of NEC ever mentions it, but if the service line is to be replaced, does the power panel have to be replaced too? If not, why is it required to have AFCIs to replace the current ones?

Not sure which part of NEC ever mentions it, but if the service line is to be replaced, does the power panel have to be replaced too?

IMO if the service is required to be inspected than anything defective or in violation of the NEC involving the service would need to be brought up to the current adopted NEC

That however has nothing to do with the AFCI part of your question just saying if the service panel is defective or in violation at the time of inspection it should be required to meet code

 

[ptonsparky]

Is/was this an old 60 amp service that needed new conductors? Yes, I can see a new 100. AFCIs,no. Smokes, yes but not an NEC requirement.

I live and work here. Your jurisdiction may have other rules, but respectfully ask for code references.

 

[tim969]

Is/was this an old 60 amp service that needed new conductors? Yes, I can see a new 100. AFCIs,no. Smokes, yes but not an NEC requirement.

I live and work here. Your jurisdiction may have other rules, but respectfully ask for code references.

Okay, I start to get it.

So, local codes or state law requires smoke upon any permit work, (which is true because I have encountered more than twice) and then that installation could trigger AFCI. But shouldn't it be limited to the new circuit for the smoke, not the whole house?

I am really unhappy about these kinds of loop (local code requires something which triggers much more codes). Yes, I should ask for code reference. Just the same as why he asked for a new plug to be installed with 25' of the AC condenser together this service line job. I am not touching the AC at all! Even if the code now requires a receptacle, the AC was installed almost 20 years ago, when there was no such a requirement.

BTW, regarding to the receptacle requirement, can the outlet for the coil count (if the coil and the receptacle are with 25' of the condenser, though the receptacle and the coil are inside the house, but they are all on the same level).

 

[tim969]

Okay, I start to get it.

So, local codes or state law requires smoke upon any permit work, (which is true because I have encountered more than twice) and then that installation could trigger AFCI. But shouldn't it be limited to the new circuit for the smoke, not the whole house?

I am really unhappy about these kinds of loop (local code requires something which triggers much more codes). Yes, I should ask for code reference. Just the same as why he asked for a new plug to be installed with 25' of the AC condenser together this service line job. I am not touching the AC at all! Even if the code now requires a receptacle, the AC was installed almost 20 years ago, when there was no such a requirement.

BTW, regarding to the receptacle requirement, can the outlet for the coil count (if the coil and the receptacle are with 25' of the condenser, though the receptacle and the coil are inside the house, but they are all on the same level).

And there is a door to allow access to the receptacle from the condenser.