Is the interior of NEMA 3R or 4 considered "indoor"?

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nhfire77

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If you have a piece of equipment that is rated for "indoor, dry locations" would installing it in a an 3R or 4 considered to be "indoor" within the enclosure?



The equipment is required to be maintained at 32-120F, 0-85% RH as most non-hardened electronics are, and let's say the location outside the enclosure stays within those parameters....is this permissible?



I didnt think so but, maybe it is?
 
No. Indoor means in a building. ALL "outdoor" rated equipment is in outdoor rated enclosures, so if just putting it in a box was all anything required, "outdoor rated" would be meaningless. this by the way applies to "equipment", not components. A component can be put into an outdoor rated enclosure, sure. But you will not see "indoor" or "outdoor" ratings on a component, because it is INTENDED to be put in another box somewhere.

By the way, NEMA 3R does not mean water will not get in, it only means water will not get to the live parts.
 
Jraef said:
No. Indoor means in a building. ALL "outdoor" rated equipment is in outdoor rated enclosures, so if just putting it in a box was all anything required, "outdoor rated" would be meaningless.

By the way, NEMA 3R does not mean water will not get in, it only means water will not get to the live parts.
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So circuit breakers can be installed outdoors in wet locations?
 
iwire said:
Still having trouble with accepting a circuit breaker can be installed in a 3R but other electronic equipment cannot be installed in a NEMA 4 in the same type of location.
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JRaef--Good point on the 3R I wasnt thinking that much

What gets me is in TX they put fire alarm panels in NEMA 3R and 4 cabinets with plexi windows on them on the sides of buildings to house FA panels--- and I dont see how it flies or how the batteries lasting more than a few months. I just found out there are hundreds (literally) of these in more than one jurisdiction. I was asked to consult on a few retrofits and they have been there for a while yet some are new- there are no interior halls or common areas, all the meters are external and the water shutoffs/meters are at the street or in handhole boxes

They make environmentally controlled cabinets with heat and AC for this application. but Im not talking about that here.
 
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mgookin said:
If you have enough heat generated from your electronics you can mitigate that to some degree.
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My bigger concern whether its truly an installation compatible with NEC and the UL listing, or just really practical...yet I got pics today of almost 40 buildings all working ok like that.


The humidity usually isn't an issue, unless its actually raining inside the enclosure. :thumbsup: Also when the daily temp delta is 100 degrees over and over isn't helpful on components and LCD screens
 
Jraef said:
No. Indoor means in a building. ALL "outdoor" rated equipment is in outdoor rated enclosures, so if just putting it in a box was all anything required, "outdoor rated" would be meaningless. this by the way applies to "equipment", not components. A component can be put into an outdoor rated enclosure, sure. But you will not see "indoor" or "outdoor" ratings on a component, because it is INTENDED to be put in another box somewhere.

By the way, NEMA 3R does not mean water will not get in, it only means water will not get to the live parts.
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Same NEMA 4 enclosure, same "Equipment" in it, on the side of a building. I build a small enclosure around the enclosure on all sides, (like a dog house) is that indoors?

The IBC states words not defined "shall have ordinarily accepted means such as the context implies"

So that could be interpreted multiple ways and it makes me wonder if the AHJ can interpret the interior of an enclosure attached to a structure as part of the indoors?

Indoor is not defined either so off to webster's for a definition-


Full Definition of indoor
1
: of or relating to the interior of a building
2
: living, located, or carried on within a building <an indoor sport>


Not sure that works?!?!?
 
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