Is the NEC copyrighted legally?

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bill bamford

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I read some info on the internet about the fact that you cannot copyright law. After a document is accepted by law, anyone should be able to copy it. Since the NEC is adopted as law in many states, does this disqualify it from being copyrighted? I also read that only somewhere in the 50's did the NFPA place copyright on their documents. This all being said, why doesn't someone sell copies of the old code, or even better, make old codebooks available on the web for reference? Is this just wishfull thinking?
 
Re: Is the NEC copyrighted legally?

I'd also add that my excruciatingly limited knowledge of copyright law tells me that allowing copyrighted material to be exposed to the public outside it's protections, would most likely void those protections. Of course that's a matter of law. (That means a judge has to decide)
 
Re: Is the NEC copyrighted legally?

This has been thrown around before. If I look inside the 2002 version, it says copyright 2002. So I don't think you can claim its not copywrited.

You said " after a document is accepted by law, anyone should be able to copy it". I've heard that before too. If others could sell the NEC, they would making a profit off of all NFPA's hard work (and the hard work of the code making panels also - who I believe are not paid or even reimbursed for their expenses). Bottom line is that we would all suffer. And I wouldn't want to bet my dime on a court deciding its legal to copy and distribute copyrighted material.

I think the real bottom line is that: the law (i.e. the NEC) should be available for everyone to read and study at no cost. And it is, at your local library.

Steve

[ February 17, 2005, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: steve66 ]
 
Re: Is the NEC copyrighted legally?

I don't disagree a word you've said Steve.

But the concepts of law and ethics in the same paragraph?
 
Re: Is the NEC copyrighted legally?

In the cover of every NFPA standard there is are several NOTICES and, especially, the Licensing Policy as it applies to jurisdictional adoption.

They legally protect the NFPA Copyright very soundly. The short excerpts we use on this site are usually within "Fair Use."
 
Re: Is the NEC copyrighted legally?

I have stated many times that the finial Authority Having Jurisdiction over the National Electrical Code belongs solely with the National Fire Protection Association. Most people who hear this statement immediately jump to the conclusion that I am making the statement that the NFPA is in charge of enforcement. Most who jump the highest are the ones who don?t understand the definition of Authority Having Jurisdiction. In the definition the word ?enforcement? is not stated.

It was explained to me as follows, I do not know if this correct or not. When a jurisdiction adopts the NEC into law they are adopting the intent of the document not the document itself. The document remains the property of the NFPA. When a state adopts a law they adopt the law not the paper that is being passed around the house floor.

I have been told that for the use of educational material that any document can be reproduced in part as long as credit is given to those who originally produced it and it is not being used for profit.

The NEC is copyrighted by the NFPA and remains the property of the NFPA. If they own it then they have to be the final Authority Having Jurisdiction over the document, but not the party in charge of enforcement.
 
Re: Is the NEC copyrighted legally?

If you are in the jurisdiction of the 5th Federal District Court (Louisiana, Mississippi,and Texas),then the copyright is lost when the code is adopted by a unit of government. Veeck V Southern Building Code Congress. The Supreme Court did not hear this case so it is not binding outside of the 5th District. If this is ever taken nationwide, it will be the death of the NFPA and the other model code publishers.
Don

[ February 17, 2005, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]
 
Re: Is the NEC copyrighted legally?

Don
Thank you for posting this site. I have always said that the most powerful learning tool known to man is his ears. Again thanks.
 
Re: Is the NEC copyrighted legally?

Don, I don't know about it being the death of the NFPA.

I'm sure there's a legal method for whatever they'll need to do.

They are a beneficial entity, I'm sure they'll be around for a while. The NEC enjoys world wide respect and use. I at least hope that the legal system and two bit lawyers can't find a way to undo that.
 
Re: Is the NEC copyrighted legally?

Originally posted by physis:
Don, I don't know about it being the death of the NFPA.
Click to expand...
Maybe the NFPA as you know it. Back to being a collection of fire departments who write standards, or has to collect funding elsewhere.

I at least hope that the legal system and two bit lawyers can't find a way to undo that.
Click to expand...
There's a very interesting due process argument at the core of this. When the law was only available at the clerks office you could wander in and ask for a copy to be shown to you. If you asked for a copy of the NEC, somone in government had to let you see one. Can't have secret laws after all. Sometimes you could get away with stashing a copy in the library reference section.

The web changed this radically. It (to me) is no accident that I can buy a copy of the NEC for less than what I could get it copied for at Kinkos. So even if it was available earlier and I could copy it freely (never tested from what I saw) it was still cheaper to "buy" it. Now though I have a low marginal cost to distribute it, for all practical aspects, its free. Cities post their laws on their web sites and citzens ask for, and sometimes demand, access to the entire law.

For me, the juries still out on the long term benefits from letting people look up code sections easily from home. (Mainly wether or not it will do any good.) I wonder how much of this could be solved by publishing a "lite" version for residential.
 
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