Is this a classified area?

jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Typical, areas around diesel fuel are not considered classified because of the flash point of diesel. See 514.3(A)
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Thanks for reply. This is a wastewater treatment plant where NFPA 820 is observed. Any reference in there?
Some of the existing conduit in that area has seal offs and explosion proof device boxes...
It might be a div 2 area from being wastewater as opposed to diesel. It is also possible that someone just put seals in for no good reason.

Are you planning to plug that pump into the receptacle? It's possible that the pump motor is not suitable for a division 2 area.
 
It might be a div 2 area from being wastewater as opposed to diesel. It is also possible that someone just put seals in for no good reason.

Are you planning to plug that pump into the receptacle? It's possible that the pump motor is not suitable for a division 2 area.
There's no wastewater open channels or piping in that area so I don't believe that would call for the division 2 rating.
Yes, the plan was to put a receptacle for that sump pump to drain the containment area when there's a rain event.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
...
Yes, the plan was to put a receptacle for that sump pump to drain the containment area when there's a rain event.
Why a concrete containment for what appears to be a double walled tank? If it is not a double wall tank, then I don't think an automatic sump pump is permitted inside the concrete containment.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Why a concrete containment for what appears to be a double walled tank? If it is not a double wall tank, then I don't think an automatic sump pump is permitted inside the concrete containment.
Good question and I agree you can't put an automatic sump there if it is for containment. Maybe it is not being used to collect spills or leaks. Someone just wanted to put some physical protection around it.
 

powerpete69

Senior Member
Location
Northeast, Ohio
Occupation
XXX
Typical, areas around diesel fuel are not considered classified because of the flash point of diesel. See 514.3(A)
Interesting, but it says "Where the authority having jurisdiction can satisfactorily determine that the flammable liquids having a flash point below 100F, such as gasoline, will not be handled, such location shall not be required to be classified." So perhaps this applies to the containment area of the tank.

I'm assuming that if you handle it, such as pumping it, it now must be classified? I would think there would be a class I, Division 1 bubble with a three feet radius around the end of the pump spout. Anyone?
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Interesting, but it says "Where the authority having jurisdiction can satisfactorily determine that the flammable liquids having a flash point below 100F, such as gasoline, will not be handled, such location shall not be required to be classified." So perhaps this applies to the containment area of the tank.

I'm assuming that if you handle it, such as pumping it, it now must be classified? I would think there would be a class I, Division 1 bubble with a three feet radius around the end of the pump spout. Anyone?
the flash point of diesel exceeds 100 deg f so the sentence you quoted just does not apply.
 

rbalex

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Mission Viejo, CA
Occupation
Professional Electrical Engineer
The first question that should always be asked when questions like this arise is, "Where is the documentation required by Section 500.4(A)?" The forum shouldn't be doing the classifying for him.

I will say there are at least two clues in the photo that indicates the tank manufacture thinks it is a classified location. There may be a few others.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
The few times I have installed that type of equipment for both gas and diesel, the equipment was built exactly the same way for both products. That is all built in accordance with Figure 514.3(B).
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
The few times I have installed that type of equipment for both gas and diesel, the equipment was built exactly the same way for both products. That is all built in accordance with Figure 514.3(B).
probably cheaper to build everything the same way rather than having two versions. I can't say I have ever seen a concrete diesel tank though.
 

rbalex

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Mission Viejo, CA
Occupation
Professional Electrical Engineer
I can't tell from the picture for sure but might be the switch next to the hose reel is XP. Looks like it might have a red nameplate.
That's two. I was able to zoom in on it after I saved the photo. There is a third clue on the photo and at least one, a bit more subtle clue, that isn't in the photo itself.

As I mentioned. someone qualified should have created the proper documentation.

Of course, that leaves the question of why they installed the receptacle before they knew what the classification was.
 

u791262

Member
One other item of note is, that assuming the switch is XP (and I believe from all indications it is) where is the required conduit seal? Or maybe it has hermetically sealed contacts on the inside.
 
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