is this backfeeding?

[david]

A friend with 30 + years inspecting asked what I thought about a conflict he was having. The contractor took a feeder from an 800- amp service 150 amp breaker to a sub panel with a main breaker. The panel also has feed through lugs off the 150- amp bus.

The feed from the 800- amp service went to the feed trough lugs not the 150 amp main. From the 150 amp main breaker another feeder was taken to feed another sub-panel for some pump equipment.

The senior inspector told the contractor he would not pass this installation stating if someone was to turn off the main this panel would still be energized and some one is going to get hurt thinking they killed the main. The contractor argued that a sub panel did not need a main. The senior inspector stated he is not disputing the fact that the sub panel did not need a main but rather since this panel has a main he would not pass the feeder to this panel being tied into the main lugs.

The contractor went over the inspector?s head and took his argument to the owner of the inspection agency. The owner said to pass the installation. The inspector refused stating it his name on the sticker and he does not believe this to be safe.

 

[pierre]

Re: is this backfeeding?

David
The subpanel does not require a breaker at the panel, but does require the proper protection upstream. What size conductors and breaker are upstream of this panel? If I was the inspector that is what I would be looking for.
BTW - If the inspector believes he is right, I admire him for 'sticking to his guns'! He does need to be correct though.

Pierre

 

[david]

Re: is this backfeeding?

Pierre

Sorry for not being clear. The feeder I assume are the correct size since this inspector is pretty sharp and he did not make an issue of the feeder size when he explained this conflict to me.

Let me further clarify by saying the feeder comes off a 150 amp breaker at the 800- amp service. And since this sub panel has at least a 150- amp bus and a factory 150 amp main, every one agrees that the sub panel would not have been required to have a main.

The inspector is saying because the panel has a main, that the feeder from the 150-amp breaker at the service should have supplied this panel by using the main. The inspector feels it is unsafe for someone to open what would be the main and still have this panel energized. He is taking issue with using the main lugs on the bottom off this panel to feed the panel and coming off the main breaker to feed an additional sub panel.

 

[jim dungar]

Re: is this backfeeding?

As you described it, the sub panel does not have a main breaker. What has been installed is a branch breaker that looks like a main. The inspector is correct if the breaker is identified as a "main".

The breaker needs to be clearly re-identified as a branch breaker, make sure that the "MAIN BREAKER" lable supplied with the panel is removed, and add a seperate "BRANCH BREAKER" or "SUB-FEED BREAKER" lable.

 

[charlie b]

Re: is this backfeeding?

Couldn?t the Inspector cite 110.3(B)? (?Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.?) I?d wager that the panel was not installed in accordance with the manufacturer?s instructions.

 

[BAHTAH]

Re: is this backfeeding?

Do you know who manufactured the panelboard? I know of at least two manufactures that have panelboards that are listed for main breaker installation at the top or bottom in the field and/or main lugs in the top or bottom position. These panels are usually stocked by distributors for their versatility. I think the breaker need only be identified correctly as a subfeed to the equipment it serves.

 

[gregoryelectricinc]

Re: is this backfeeding?

I agree that the breaker should br clearly labled so as to avoid confusion. The only other thing that comes to mind would be to find out if the breaker is listed for reverse feeding. One local POCO in our area uses meter pedestals that require a "reverse" fed breaker. These are clearly marked for this purpose.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: is this backfeeding?

All breakers are suitable for this use unless the words "line" and "load" are marked on the breaker itself.
Don

 

[david]

Re: is this backfeeding?

Jim,
Thanks and I agree if the installation is to remain as installed the words main that are stamped by the factory into the panel cover will have to be covered over. And the panel main clearly needs to be re-identified.

Charlie,
I think you make a valid point since this panel could have been easily wired using the main as designed. Further I have to ask why was this panel wired this way. There does not seem to be any reason for doing this. At the very least this is a poor design choice.

Grant,
Sorry I did not ask who manufactured the panel.

Greg & Don,
I will ask the inspector if he checked for a label on the main breaker. The breaker may be labeled line and load.

[ August 19, 2003, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: david ]