Is this light pole safe? Improper bonding

[ElectricAvenue]

Hey there everyone I am new here,

I am an apprentice electrician working in Houston, I am also a 3rd year student at IEC. Last nights lesson in school kind of opened my eyes about some things on grounding and bonding. Currently this week I have been working on some 80-100 Ft Light poles at a junior high school football field. On top of the poles are a cage with gutters, and 1-2 panels feeding a set of 10-20 lights depending on the pole. Everything on the pole is completely full of rust, the panels are rusted, including the gutters. The wiring is so old that it's falling apart and at any given moment those wires can lose their insulation. Nothing is bonded anywhere on top of these poles. Coming out of the gutters are 12/2 SO cords feeding the light fixtures. The ground wires are cut back on both sides. The only ground that is installed is a 2/0 AWG wire that bonds to the base of the pole to apparently a ground rod though I have not seen this myself, only been told that there is one there. The poles are being fed with PVC conduits with no ground pulled in any of them. I brought this up to my contractor and his response was "We're getting paid to change ballasts and bulbs, not to ground an ungrounded system." I told him I didn't want to work on this because I didn't feel safe and I didn't want to be responsible for what could happen if some kid came in contact with these poles are the wrong time. I just wanted to know if it sounds to you like these poles should be worked on or not. I could possibly lose my job over this so I just wanted to make sure I at least wasn't wrong about it. After all my book does say that the earth is not an effective ground fault path and from the looks of it, the only thing that's grounded or bonded on this pole is the earth.

 

[kwired]

Though it may be an issue I am not as concerned with the issues at the top of the pole.

For public safety reasons though I am concerned with the lack of equipment grounding at the base of the poles, should the pole become energized the ground rod likely is not low enough resistance to allow enough fault current to flow to trip the overcurrent device supplying the pole.

One situation that may have been legal at time of install would be if they ran a neutral conductor and bonded it to the pole as well as the GEC, as well as provide a disconnecting means rated for use as service equipment. That would have been NEC compliant before 2008(? maybe 2005, can't remember which) NEC, and is still permitted after that change for existing installations only.

 

[ElectricAvenue]

Yeah it's an existing installation and from what my contractor told me, they don't have to update it since we're only doing service on it to get the lights working again. Am I wrong for refusing to do work on this pole until it's properly bonded though?

 

[kwired]

Yeah it's an existing installation and from what my contractor told me, they don't have to update it since we're only doing service on it to get the lights working again. Am I wrong for refusing to do work on this pole until it's properly bonded though?

Biggest risk to you is touch potential between the pole and earth or other grounded objects around it.

When working up top from the "cage" you are at same potential as everything else that is ordinarily grounded whether it is above earth potential or not.

If you feel you want to address this with others for public safety sake - I'd at least confirm there is no EGC supplying the pole or a grounded conductor of a feeder is properly installed and grounded at the separate structure per earlier editions of NEC that once allowed that practice before proceeding to notify anyone. (Make sure you know there is a problem and what it is)

There was a thread a few months back about a kid electrocuted from a similar type of situation at a school owned ball field. Things work fine as long as nothing fails - but it can take years sometimes for something to fail and cause such a problem, so you just don't know if or when there may be a serious risk.

 

[ptonsparky]

Don't throw away your job over this, unless you really don't like those heights. You have made your concerns known. Not much more you can do at this point of your career.

 

[K8MHZ]

I told him I didn't want to work on this because I didn't feel safe

You are a 3rd year apprentice, correct? I personally feel that you should not have to do work you do not feel safe doing. I have refused to do work I felt was unsafe. I didn't get fired. When I was an apprentice we were told straight out, don't do work you feel unsafe doing.

I also feel that working on light poles is journeyman's work. When I was a first year apprentice I was doing lights on outdoor poles with a j-man. The wiring was all messed up and I got a 277 volt reminder that electricity can hide everywhere. Man that rattled me a good one. Lucky for me I had spent years in industrial maintenance before that and getting nailed was pretty old hat by then.

When we got down and the foreman heard about it, the j-man got his butt reamed for having me work on live equipment. Even though it was supposed to be dead.

Now, I don't know your situation, but I do know jobs are hard to come by and most people won't take a stand as they can't afford to. I understand that. The above is just my own personal feelings.

 

[kwired]

You are a 3rd year apprentice, correct? I personally feel that you should not have to do work you do not feel safe doing. I have refused to do work I felt was unsafe. I didn't get fired. When I was an apprentice we were told straight out, don't do work you feel unsafe doing.

I also feel that working on light poles is journeyman's work. When I was a first year apprentice I was doing lights on outdoor poles with a j-man. The wiring was all messed up and I got a 277 volt reminder that electricity can hide everywhere. Man that rattled me a good one. Lucky for me I had spent years in industrial maintenance before that and getting nailed was pretty old hat by then.

When we got down and the foreman heard about it, the j-man got his butt reamed for having me work on live equipment. Even though it was supposed to be dead.

Now, I don't know your situation, but I do know jobs are hard to come by and most people won't take a stand as they can't afford to. I understand that. The above is just my own personal feelings.

If he feels unsafe that is fine, but he needs to be able to present the reason it is not safe also, and he could still be right and have someone with more experience claim his reason is invalid - then we have a stalemate on some level.

 

[AJElectric]

Rule #1 in a complicated situation, don't take blanket advice from anyone who doesn't know you well. However, you can gain valuable input from the many experienced pro's on this forum.
Rule #2 be candid with your boss without being a know-it-all apprentice - if he goes on the defensive then a workable solution will be hard to find.

I feel the first step is to ensure that you and your boss are on the same page about the issue and possible remedies. As far as your minimum responsibility, technically you've notified your boss and have no liability. If he's wise he will at least notify the right people of any issues. If he won't and you feel need to go around him and do that yourself (perhaps you want a different boss anyway) I doubt you'll get results. If you give up your job over it, that won't make the poles any safer either.

Think about this: You find a new job. A few weeks later someone gets electrocuted. Now you have "I told you so" on your side, but someone still died. I feel your moral responsibility is not to make a controversy over it but rather try to find a win-win. Second-best scenario is to concede while knowing that [someone with the authority to fix it] is aware.

If there is existing neutral pulled to the pole from main power service and good connections there, perhaps that could be used to ground the frame. While not ideal, it would be MUCH safer than no ground at all and if I was in your shoes this would make me pretty comfortable without having to rewire the whole system. If this can't be done, you are correct a ground fault would be a huge liability. The mess at the top - not really a safety issue as long as pole is grounded back to source _somehow_ ...and you're not working it live.

As far as the 2/0 ground wire at the bottom, what a joke. You should watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNZC782SzAQ

 

[kwired]

If there is existing neutral pulled to the pole from main power service and good connections there, perhaps that could be used to ground the frame. While not ideal, it would be MUCH safer than no ground at all and if I was in your shoes this would make me pretty comfortable without having to rewire the whole system.

And as I said earlier this would have been acceptable in the past (and still is for existing installations) - if the pole is supplied by a feeder and has a disconnecting means suitable for use as service equipment. With as many lights as he says there is on the pole there is a good chance this is supplied by a feeder and maybe is compliant.