is this overkill???

[Mister Kool]

In a 6000 seat arena there are 6 concession stands, each concession stand has only two 20A circuits each. There is always some problems with blown circuits while they are trying to heat hotdogs, pop popcorn, heat cheese for nachos, etc. The concession stands are about 15'x20' each. Would it be too much to propose 100A panels in 4 of the stands? Eventhough they dont have any electric fryers or anything like that there is still the possibility of growing. Would 100A be too much.

 

[iwire]

In a 6000 seat arena there are 6 concession stands, each concession stand has only two 20A circuits each.

2 - 20 amp circuits :grin:


As far as your question I could not begin to guess without having a better idea what they will be running.

I should mention it is against the NEC to run more than one branch circuit to a building or structure so each stand will need a feeder with a panelboard. You also would need a grounding electrode system and a disconnecting means so make it a main breaker panel.

 

[Mister Kool]

2 - 20 amp circuits :grin:




I should mention it is against the NEC to run more than one branch circuit to a building or structure...

its all one building its an indoor arena (a convocation center)

 

[iwire]

its all one building its an indoor arena (a convocation center)

Oh, for some reason I was thinking outdoors.

 

[electricalperson]

i think that might be a good idea. it will cure the problem of tripping breakers for sure. and if they do decide to add fryers or some other stuff they have the option too

 

[kwired]

in places like this you can never have too much capacity. You will never know what may be added temporarily or permanently. The nature of this type of use is high load for relatively short time but the load is all needed pretty much at one time. When an event is about to start they need just about everything all at once.

 

[danickstr]

I would at least suggest to them bigger conduit for some stands, for future expansion, if nothing else. I imagine voltage drop is significant unless there are trannys here and there.

 

[iwire]

in places like this you can never have too much capacity. You will never know what may be added temporarily or permanently. The nature of this type of use is high load for relatively short time but the load is all needed pretty much at one time. When an event is about to start they need just about everything all at once.

I agree, if they do not have gas in these stands you could use up a 225 amp three phase panel in that little space. Thats why it is so tough to answer the question.

If they have been getting by with just two 20 amp circuits anything you do will be a huge improvement.

 

[Mister Kool]

thanx guys I feel the same as you all.

 

[mxslick]

To be odd man out, how about a 60 amp subpanel to each stand? Enough capacity to cover forseeable concessions loads, as long as someone doesn't try to power a concert lighting system from it.

Keeps conductor and conduit sizes down too.

 

[iwire]

Or one electric fryer ....

 

[mxslick]

Or one electric fryer ....

Whoops, forgot about that..how much does one of those beasts draw?

 

[bradleyelectric]

seems like a couple simple questions are in order. What are they trying to power now? What would they like to power in the future? That would determine what to put. If they have money to spend on possibilities spend it. They may not be willing to spend more then what they immediately need.

 

[cadpoint]

I don't think it that cut and dry, by all means add up the equipment!

I'd give a long look at Article 518, remember when your -100, verses + 100.
I'd also try to find and study the original spec's and drawing if available.
Note partitions areas/type and the construction of the concessions.

If theres' a sink in the concession stands your local AHJ might considered it a kitchen, see Articles 220.56 & 220.61.

After you figure it all out I'd have the AHJ in for a blessing before proceeding... of course that only me bumping the keyboard, I'm won't be carring the paper.

 

[iwire]

Whoops, forgot about that..how much does one of those beasts draw?

Obviously it depends on the size of the unit but 50 amp circuits seem to be a common size of heating equipment, often 50 amps 3 phase for what I would call a typical size commercial deep fry unit, electric pizza oven - 50 amp 3 phase, large electric flat top grill for burgers and such, 50 amp single or 3 phase.

 

[Mister Kool]

great input
I love this forum

 

[dbuckley]

Catering always want more power than they think or will tell you.

Its common at a temporary event to send the paperworkm to catering to get power required, and they give you a number, and when they actually turn up at the event they have several times that number in load.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Or one electric fryer ....

You'll need a shunt trip probably for that!

 

[220/221]

100 may be overkill.

What to do depends on what exactly is being used and how the existing system is configured.

If you can simply pull in a couple/few new circuits to each area and have evey appliance/recep by itself, that would be the way to go.

If there is no room in the panel(s), a sub at each location may make more sense but still...100 amps?