Iso
- Thread starter Tori
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
The Company I work for looked into it and I think they determined to much expense for to little return.
I am glad they did not, as I understood it the service trucks would have had to have identical inventories.
I am glad they did not, as I understood it the service trucks would have had to have identical inventories.
we were, but there was no benefit to it. As a small outfit it was relatively inexpensive. But we did everything in house. Wrote the manual, etc. Would have cost approx. $20,000 to have a manual written (but that was in 1998)
We recently decided to not renew since it did not pay any dividends. Any ISO company can write their own regulations regarding outside vendors.
but, i got a few more certifications out of the deal and a ton of knowledge.
We recently decided to not renew since it did not pay any dividends. Any ISO company can write their own regulations regarding outside vendors.
but, i got a few more certifications out of the deal and a ton of knowledge.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
ISO would not require each service truck to have identical inventories. That kind of thing is a myth. It might end up being the same thing though, as every aspect of the way things are done has to be documented, and it is much easier to have one procedure rather than oine for each truck.
OTOH, I have seen a lot of ISO companies that have learned to write procedures that are vague and open ended enough to be meaningless, but sound like they are meaningful.
One company I am familiar with allows the leadman on the floor to effectively determine what constitutes a passing score for a part being manufactured. You might not realize it from reading the procedures, but if you look real close at them, it is allowed.
Another cell in the same plant requires that the results of all tests be collected by a PLC and stored. They are stored in the PLC, and after a few days they go away. No where does it state where or how long the test results are kept.
OTOH, I have seen a lot of ISO companies that have learned to write procedures that are vague and open ended enough to be meaningless, but sound like they are meaningful.
One company I am familiar with allows the leadman on the floor to effectively determine what constitutes a passing score for a part being manufactured. You might not realize it from reading the procedures, but if you look real close at them, it is allowed.
Another cell in the same plant requires that the results of all tests be collected by a PLC and stored. They are stored in the PLC, and after a few days they go away. No where does it state where or how long the test results are kept.
Bob is right. ISO is only as good as the company that writes the manual. There is the old joke about concrete life vests. So long as they kill every user, they are compliant.
ISO as a principal is good. it can make you leaner, meaner and more efficient. Six Sigma is another good way to go in the effort to become a better company.
But you can be ISO certified and be the worst damn company in the world.
ISO as a principal is good. it can make you leaner, meaner and more efficient. Six Sigma is another good way to go in the effort to become a better company.
But you can be ISO certified and be the worst damn company in the world.
Bob NH
Senior Member
- Location
- The "Live Free or Die" State
I once visited a company in the defense business that was celebrating their ISO Quality certification. Less than a month later they were charged by the defense department with shipping aircraft engine parts that they knew didn't meet specification requirements.
ISO was so much of a stickler about every procedure being up to date that we scrapped more than 1000 notebooks with policies and procedures where I worked and put every one on a computer network. If you printed a copy it was watermarked as being an unofficial copy valid only at the time of printing. All of that was to overcome the problem of hundreds of people not keeping their copies up to date.
The ISO certification process in the defense industry seemed to be run at that time (late 90s) by a foreign mafia, largely out of the UK, who would review, train, and certify, at great expense. In the end it was done because the customer demanded it.
ISO was so much of a stickler about every procedure being up to date that we scrapped more than 1000 notebooks with policies and procedures where I worked and put every one on a computer network. If you printed a copy it was watermarked as being an unofficial copy valid only at the time of printing. All of that was to overcome the problem of hundreds of people not keeping their copies up to date.
The ISO certification process in the defense industry seemed to be run at that time (late 90s) by a foreign mafia, largely out of the UK, who would review, train, and certify, at great expense. In the end it was done because the customer demanded it.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
iwire said:
LOL....yeah I can see that happening.
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
Tori, by your posts it seems your company does a fair amount of gov't work. Perhaps that is why they keep the ISO rating? Welcome to the forum, by the way!
"it seems your company does a fair amount of gov't work. Perhaps that is why they keep the ISO rating?"
And the goverment contractors, watch ISO more then ISO watches them, http://www.ncix.gov/archives/nacic/news/1999/mar99.html#rtoc7
And the goverment contractors, watch ISO more then ISO watches them, http://www.ncix.gov/archives/nacic/news/1999/mar99.html#rtoc7
tallgirl
Senior Member
- Location
- Glendale, WI
- Occupation
- Controls Systems firmware engineer
My Life with ISO 9000
My Life with ISO 9000
My employer (which isn't an electrical contractor ...) is ISO 9000 certified and has been for 10 or 15 years now.
ISO is great if your company's culture already does the sorts of things ISO certification requires, and the employees buy in to it. But if the corporate culture is opposed to the restraints that come with ISO certification, or the employees hate it, it becomes something else to work around and there are plenty of ways (some of which are legitimate) for getting around it.
The key parts of ISO are documenting all procedures, having a formal process for changing processes and procedures, documenting and retaining test results, and I think you also have to analyze test results.
iwire's comments about trucks having identical inventories is, as others pointed out, incorrect, unless someone within the company decided that all trucks must have identical inventories, or that only certain parts could be on a truck. What it would requires is that for any given task, there be one or more procedures, all procedures be documented, the employees who perform a task know the procedures for that task, and that they know where to find the documents which describes the procedures for performing their tasks. ISO 9000 can be summed up as "Saying what you do, doing what you say, and proving it was done how you said it was done." That's about it.
Regarding Bob NH's comment about notebooks and the "this is an unofficial copy, valid only at the time of printing", we deal with that as well, and when I write ISO documents, I include that language. Although it seems absurd, it's not that absurd in practice since anyone who wants to know if the document is valid need only look at the "official" on-line source and validate the version that's on-line against their printed copy. Each printed copy should list the location of the on-line copy as well as the review interval. In the non-ISO world there might not be a requirement to have an "official" copy and then you wind up with each person having their own "procedures" and the chaos that can result from that.
My Life with ISO 9000
My employer (which isn't an electrical contractor ...) is ISO 9000 certified and has been for 10 or 15 years now.
ISO is great if your company's culture already does the sorts of things ISO certification requires, and the employees buy in to it. But if the corporate culture is opposed to the restraints that come with ISO certification, or the employees hate it, it becomes something else to work around and there are plenty of ways (some of which are legitimate) for getting around it.
The key parts of ISO are documenting all procedures, having a formal process for changing processes and procedures, documenting and retaining test results, and I think you also have to analyze test results.
iwire's comments about trucks having identical inventories is, as others pointed out, incorrect, unless someone within the company decided that all trucks must have identical inventories, or that only certain parts could be on a truck. What it would requires is that for any given task, there be one or more procedures, all procedures be documented, the employees who perform a task know the procedures for that task, and that they know where to find the documents which describes the procedures for performing their tasks. ISO 9000 can be summed up as "Saying what you do, doing what you say, and proving it was done how you said it was done." That's about it.
Regarding Bob NH's comment about notebooks and the "this is an unofficial copy, valid only at the time of printing", we deal with that as well, and when I write ISO documents, I include that language. Although it seems absurd, it's not that absurd in practice since anyone who wants to know if the document is valid need only look at the "official" on-line source and validate the version that's on-line against their printed copy. Each printed copy should list the location of the on-line copy as well as the review interval. In the non-ISO world there might not be a requirement to have an "official" copy and then you wind up with each person having their own "procedures" and the chaos that can result from that.
memyselfandI
Senior Member
- Location
- Hampton Roads, Virginia
Well the company I work for is ISO 9001 & 14001 certified and everything has a procedure. The one real good thing that they require is the proper disposal of fluorescent and H.I.D. lamps. The H.I.D lamps are placed in a container for disposal. We go through so many that we have to crush the fluorescents and have them picked up by a hazardous waste disposal company. A lot of documentation goes with it too. Big companies that are international I can see it being required. For small businesses it would have to be up to the company to decide. ISO 14001 is something that all companies should look into.
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
I worked for a firm for several years, I now do subcontracting for this firm, since I left (22 years ago) they have become ISO certified, I see little difference in their operation or quality of the work the do, trucks look no different, some of the electricians do top quality work, some mediorce and others are total slackers, no difference from when I worked there.
- Status