Isolation xfmr to fix voltage drop

Timberscout75

Member
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
Starting a project in a 1.2 million sqft warehouse. Need to extend temp power around the building. Im concerned about voltage drop on some of the runs Im planning. Curious if anyone knows if isolation xfrms can be used to fix voltage drop issues.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Are you referring to a 1 to 1 ratio transformer? You might be able to boost the voltage a bit with the primary taps but I don't think that this is a good solution. Let's see what some of the engineers say.

Welcome to the Forum. :)
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Welcome to the forum.

Not well, because there is no voltage regulation, so it will rise with decreasing load.

I think it would be better to distribute higher voltage and step down where needed.
 

Jpflex

Electrician big leagues
Location
Victorville
Occupation
Electrician commercial and residential
Are you referring to a 1 to 1 ratio transformer? You might be able to boost the voltage a bit with the primary taps but I don't think that this is a good solution. Let's see what some of the engineers say.

Welcome to the Forum. :)
I’ve done this before by changing transformer taps on a 120/208 volt transformer to step up to 220 volts but I also advised against doing it, but owner wanted a quick solution.

Why not just upsize feeders compensate for voltage drop

2 x K (12.9 copper) x i amperes x D distance of 1 run / CM circular mill
 

Jpflex

Electrician big leagues
Location
Victorville
Occupation
Electrician commercial and residential
I’ve done this before by changing transformer taps on a 120/208 volt transformer to step up to 220 volts but I also advised against doing it, but owner wanted a quick solution.

Why not just upsize feeders compensate for voltage drop

2 x K (12.9 copper) x i amperes x D distance of 1 run / CM circular mill
My bad i was assuming wire was not ran yet, but if feeder is already ran then a boost transformer at feeder termination may help?
 

Timberscout75

Member
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
I’ve done this before by changing transformer taps on a 120/208 volt transformer to step up to 220 volts but I also advised against doing it, but owner wanted a quick solution.

Why not just upsize feeders compensate for voltage drop

2 x K (12.9 copper) x i amperes x D distance of 1 run / CM circular mill
Upsizing is an option but wanted to keep the costs down. Running AL 1500ft or more in some places. I was thinking of SER cable in the joist space. That puts me at at least 250kcml for 480/3. I was trying to keep it at 2-2-2-2
 

Timberscout75

Member
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
Are you referring to a 1 to 1 ratio transformer? You might be able to boost the voltage a bit with the primary taps but I don't think that this is a good solution. Let's see what some of the engineers say.

Welcome to the Forum. :)
Yes, 1:1.
Thanks, been using Holts stuff for years. Decided to try the forum for this question.
 

Jpflex

Electrician big leagues
Location
Victorville
Occupation
Electrician commercial and residential
Upsizing is an option but wanted to keep the costs down. Running AL 1500ft or more in some places. I was thinking of SER cable in the joist space. That puts me at at least 250kcml for 480/3. I was trying to keep it at 2-2-2-2
Yes i realized later that upsizing wire world be too costly for the size of your warehouse. So why not consider using existing wires with a buck/boost transformer at termination of your feeder(s) and before sub panels?
 

Timberscout75

Member
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
Yes i realized later that upsizing wire world be too costly for the size of your warehouse. So why not consider using existing wires with a buck/boost transformer at termination of your feeder(s) and before sub panels?
This is a very bare bones core and shell right now. The largest load I have available to use is 480/3 at 30A (unit heaters). The skid(s) Im trying to feed are a 480/3 100A disconnect>75kva>208/1. All fed from 480/3 90A breakers Im installing at a house panelboard. Trying to keep the 480v to the skids and step down after the disco. I was thinking that a 1:1 at 700ft (roughly) may help me get the other roughly 700ft to the skid.
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
1500ft or more in some places.
Whats the calculated load at the end of the 1500 foot run all 75 kva plus 30A @ 480 three phase? (not breaker sizes but actual load)
Can you be more specific on the distance 'or more' is hard to plan for. Is it or 10 feet more? 100' more? 1000' more?
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
The problem with using a transformer to handle non-specific voltage drop is the voltage rise when the loading is light.

I would be addressing the voltage drop at each skid after making the feeders as large as you can afford.
 

Timberscout75

Member
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
Whats the calculated load at the end of the 1500 foot run all 75 kva plus 30A @ 480 three phase? (not breaker sizes but actual load)
Can you be more specific on the distance 'or more' is hard to plan for. Is it or 10 feet more? 100' more? 1000' more?
This is a temp power install using portable skids. There is no calculated load for it. Most likely will never exceed 100A @ 208/1.
Confident I can keep the run at 1500ft to my 480v disco.
 

Timberscout75

Member
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
Do you actually have voltage drop issues? If you're powering mostly series-wound universal motors and LED lighting, even a lot of voltage drop won't cause any operational problems.
Not sure. This is all temp power. No lighting. Just equipment and tool charging. Maybe some cord connected drills and other hand tools. Question is based on anticipation. Distances are long, but loads are minimal, cant imagine them ever exceeding 100A. Probably wont come close to that either.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Generally speaking, it's more efficient to boost voltage at the supply end of a feeder than at the load end.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Yes, 1:1.
Thanks, been using Holts stuff for years. Decided to try the forum for this question.
1:1 gains you nothing. All your losses are in resistance of the conductors. In fact if a marginally sized transformer for the load supplied you actually might see more VD than if you didn't have the transformer.
 
I would just see how how it goes, you may very well not have any issues. Most stuff these days wont care about low voltage especially if its temp. IF you did have issues I would consider a buck boost, might get you what you need.
 

__dan

Banned
Starting a project in a 1.2 million sqft warehouse. Need to extend temp power around the building. Im concerned about voltage drop on some of the runs Im planning. Curious if anyone knows if isolation xfrms can be used to fix voltage drop issues.
As stated, if you want a Voltage boost you would use an autotransformer connection (buck boost). The autotransformer carries only a small faction of the total load so is much smaller. !2V or 16V boost x load Amps = autotransformer kVA size.

Some loads can ignore voltage drop like the resistance type unit heaters, will not care. Motors +- 10% are OK.

Distributing at 480 V and stepping down at the skid transformer is likely best. That skid transformer has the adjustable taps you would be looking for, +- 2.5% each tap usually. Then the separately derived and bonded neutral is clean, Neutral Voltage close to ground, to keep the GFI loads happy.

Problem comes with long distance runs of the GFI branch circuit, like 10-2 RX runs 300+ ft. and lift charging plugged into that. I have seen the lift charging load bring the neutral up 7 Volts above ground and trip the GFI at the remote outlet. Lift chargers would probably tolerate some Voltage drop pretty well if close to the skid and the neutral is not going well up over ground. Neutral has half the VD for single phase line to neutral loading (the neutral Voltage goes up).
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
As stated, if you want a Voltage boost you would use an autotransformer connection (buck boost). The autotransformer carries only a small faction of the total load so is much smaller. !2V or 16V boost x load Amps = autotransformer kVA size.

Some loads can ignore voltage drop like the resistance type unit heaters, will not care. Motors +- 10% are OK.

Distributing at 480 V and stepping down at the skid transformer is likely best. That skid transformer has the adjustable taps you would be looking for, +- 2.5% each tap usually. Then the separately derived and bonded neutral is clean, Neutral Voltage close to ground, to keep the GFI loads happy.

Problem comes with long distance runs of the GFI branch circuit, like 10-2 RX runs 300+ ft. and lift charging plugged into that. I have seen the lift charging load bring the neutral up 7 Volts above ground and trip the GFI at the remote outlet. Lift chargers would probably tolerate some Voltage drop pretty well if close to the skid and the neutral is not going well up over ground. Neutral has half the VD for single phase line to neutral loading (the neutral Voltage goes up).
?

GFCI's respond to current imbalance and don't care about voltage being out of any particular range and do not monitor neutral to ground voltage either.

Long runs of a GFCI protected circuit may be subject to capacitive leakage, but it still needs to reach trip level thresholds current wise to cause it to trip regardless what voltage may be.
 
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