It had to happen:

[Tony S]

The discussion document for the latest version of BS7671 (UK regulations) has been issued by the British Standards Institute. AFCI’s (AFDD’s) have reared their ugly head as a recommendation for fire prevention. There’s a few other things causing unrest but they are all IEC based.

So gentlemen, can you help by providing substantiated evidence of the failings of AFCI’s.

Iwire, I don’t want this to develop in to a slanging match about the different methods used on our respective continents. It is a genuine cry for HELP ! ! ! !

 

[infinity]

Now you can feel some of the pain that we feel across the pond. For the record Bob (iwire) is on sabbatical so he won't be posting in this thread.

 

[user 100]

The discussion document for the latest version of BS7671 (UK regulations) has been issued by the British Standards Institute. AFCI’s (AFDD’s) have reared their ugly head as a recommendation for fire prevention. There’s a few other things causing unrest but they are all IEC based.

So gentlemen, can you help by providing substantiated evidence of the failings of AFCI’s.

Iwire, I don’t want this to develop in to a slanging match about the different methods used on our respective continents. It is a genuine cry for HELP ! ! ! !

Tony, the forum is full of opinions on AFCIs- just search.

Speaking of Iwire, I've noticed he hasn't posted in a while.:?

 

[user 100]

Speaking of Iwire, I've noticed he hasn't posted in a while.:?

For the record Bob (iwire) is on sabbatical......

Ahhh - hes taking a break.

Have missed his knowledge and wit.

 

[Besoeker]

The discussion document for the latest version of BS7671 (UK regulations) has been issued by the British Standards Institute. AFCI’s (AFDD’s) have reared their ugly head as a recommendation for fire prevention. There’s a few other things causing unrest but they are all IEC based.

So gentlemen, can you help by providing substantiated evidence of the failings of AFCI’s.
[/COLOR][/B]

Can you post a copy of the discussion document in question?

 

[mivey]

Hopefully y'all will have more sense than we had over here but apparently the stupidity has started taking root over there as well. Manufacturers lobby hard here and you might have the same lobbying problem we have.

Not sure you will be able to stop that flood. We couldn't.

 

[JFletcher]

W/o looking at older, innumerable threads on AFCI, these are the problems:

1) AFCI breakers do not trip with faults from line-neutral, and only those with GFCI tend to trip with actual ground faults
2) AFCI breakers cannot be tested in any 3rd party manner. The only approved test is the test buttons on the breaker.
3) AFCI breakers have no track record of preventing any fires, and due to the nature of trying to prove a negative, never will.
4) AFCI breakers are a cost above normal breakers, money that could be spent on proven fire control measures, like sprinklers.
5) AFCI breakers are sometimes touted as a cure or fix for obsolete or incorrect wiring methods.
5a) To that end, installing an AFCI breaker can show neutrals connected of different circuits, which can take a lot of time to find and correct.
6) Many older panels cannot accept AFCI breakers, or AFCI breakers arent made for those panels.
7) AFCI breakers are subject to interference.
8) AFCI can trip for no apparent reason. A brand new vacuum can work on 3 of 4 AFCI circuits, but not the 4th. Replacing the breaker often fixes that problem. Was the breaker faulty, or sensitive? Are the other 3 bad and that one is working correctly? How can we truly test? Oh, see #2.
9) Some states (Michigan or Minnesota?) have rescinded all AFCI requirements because of all these issues.
10) AFCI breakers do not work as advertised.

My main concerns are 2 and 4. Any safety analysis of a dozen AFCI breakers vs regular + sprinklers shows sprinklers ahead in every respect. And if an AFCI fails its self test, it's trash, but if it passes its self test but doesnt work, how do we know?

 

[Tony S]

Can you post a copy of the discussion document in question?

No as it’s copyright material. Members of BSI can download it.

 

[Tony S]

mivey, it's the way the manufacturers have lobbied the powers that be that has got me involved in the arguments. I’m retired and have never done domestic electrics so they wouldn’t affect me personally.

Mr Fletcher, thank you.

 

[mbrooke]

Sadly, this has been the plan for two decades- despite the fact AFCIs were supposed to mimic European technology already in existence since the 1980s.