It happened again!

[charlie b]

Two months have passed since the event that I described in this thread. It happened again last night.

This time, the thing that was turned on, and that was followed immediately by all lights out in the area, was the TV. My wife used the remote to turn on the TV, and the lights went out. That was last night. This morning, I was running an extension cord from an area of the house that had power, so she could get her computer and Internet connection going, and the power "spontaneously" came back on. A few minutes later, it was off again.

It turns out that just last week, I created a panel schedule and a floor plan, showing which breaker fed each outlet in the entire house. The circuit in question has three light fixtures and 11 receptacles. That is a bit much, but the circuit breaker did not trip on overload. Cycling the breaker on and off several times had no effect (same as what happened in December).

At this point, I am not looking for troubleshooting advice or for new ideas on possible causes. I have made an offer to buy the house. Part of the deal is replacement of the Zinsco main service panel and opening, inspecting, and rewiring (as necessary) every outlet in the house (most are not grounded, and none has a working GFCI). I have selected a contractor, and will schedule the job for shortly after closing. All I can hope for is that the problem goes away until that time. So any prayers, good wishes, crossing of fingers, or holding arms up with palms facing Seattle and saying "OOOOOHHHHMM" would be appreciated.

 

[macmikeman]

Re: It happened again!

Charlie, first thing is change that circuit breaker. It might be faulty. Odds are really good that that is the problem. Also the receptacles might be backstabbed, and this is also a pretty good way to create the situation you have described. If the stuff was backstabbed, have the devices reconnected using the screw terminals. There are other possible problems such as a broken or cooked device in the circuit, but the odds go down on this. Boils down to odds.

 

[growler]

Re: It happened again!

I think it's in the junction box for the bathroom light fixture. That's where you first noticed the problem ( switching on the bathroom light ). In older homes the earlier fixtures did not have insulation between fixture and junction box. 100 watt bulb with a globe and you have just put the wiring in an oven. When you pull those fixtures all the insulation on the wires just falls off. I would have the landlord hire an electrician to look into this. Even if the wires are in a metal box I still consider this to be a fire hazard. Better safe than sorry.

 

[TAZMAN]

Re: It happened again!

I have ran into this situation several times with zinsco breakers. What I found was the breaker was not making good contact with the busbar. After the circuit cools back down often things worked again until contact between the breaker and the busbar heated backup. The majority of the time the breaker or the busbar was pitted and discolored from the build up of heat. You may want to have a licensed electrician check the panel for this problem. If there are any unused spaces in panel he may be able to buy new breaker and relocate on busbar. He must be careful if its a multiwire branch circuit to make sure its on the proper leg so as not to over heat the neutral. In many circumstances I have had to replace panel because busbar was discolored, pitted or damaged.

 

[charlie b]

Re: It happened again!

Thanks for all the info. This panel is going to be replaced, and all of the outlets (not just the ones on this circuit) are going to be checked. I just hope it stays together till then.

If the power has not magically returned by the time I get home, I will toss this back into the hands of the owner.

 

[PlnOldRick]

Re: It happened again!

i say backstabbed receps or bad joints. next time it happens walk around and tap fairly hard on the receps on that circuit....usually the lights will flicker a little from the vibration making small contact from the stab ins.

 

[charlie b]

Re: It happened again!

OK, Rick. I'll give that a try.

 

[santacruzer]

Re: It happened again!

I agree with the backstabbed receptacle theory. You should start by looking behind the heaviest piece of furniture, from my experience that is where the problem is...

 

[Minuteman]

Re: It happened again!

I agree with all the above, with special emphasis on:

Originally posted by macmikeman:
If the stuff was backstabbed, have the devices reconnected using the screw terminals. There are other possible problems such as a broken or cooked device in the circuit...

Backstabbed or broken device used as a splice point (Not Pig tailed)

Originally posted by TAZMAN:
I have ran into this situation several times with zinsco breakers. What I found was the breaker was not making good contact with the busbar. After the circuit cools back down often things worked again until contact between the breaker and the busbar heated backup...

Works good with a small load, dies with a large load, cools and resurrects again, to be repeated. (Or should that be "reincarnates"?)

 

[augie47]

Re: It happened again!

You should start by looking behind the heaviest piece of furniture, from my experience that is where the problem is...

one of Mr. Murphy's prime laws.

 

[LKO]

Re: It happened again!

I suggest going to the last place where you will find the problem. That'll fix it.

 

[charlie b]

Re: It happened again!

BY JOVE, I THINK HE'S GOT IT!

The problem appears to have been located, and at least temporarily resolved. Many thanks for all the suggestions.

It turns out to have been a loose wire on a receptacle that I am guessing is the second outlet on the branch circuit. All of the outlets that lost power were downstream of this one. The wires were not backstabbed, and the loose one was not a neutral. One of the hot wires was not held tight by the screw.

The way I found it was not unlike Rick's suggestion. But I didn't have to tap hard on the outlet. The power in the affected area came on and went off several times after I got home yesterday afternoon. But I noticed that when I plugged something into this particular outlet, the lights would flicker, and would go off (if they were on) or go on (if they were off).

The wire has been tightened, and I think it will likely hold up well enough for a few weeks. But it has confirmed my suspicion that the wiring in this house is in need of a thorough inspection. That will happen not long after we close on this house.