"I've never had a sub question my contract..."

[sparky 134]

I received a contract for a house remodel from a GC. The contract was thirteen pages long so I forwarded it to my attorney for review. I also reviewed it and found too many problems to list here.

Anyway, my attorney said he would have to spend about three hours rewriting it to make it neutral to both parties. I called the GC and suggested we use a standard AIA A401 Subcontractor Agreement instead. He said he works with dozens of sub's and no one has ever questioned his contract.

"I'm sure there are subcontractors out there who will sign anything just to get work but I cannot enter into this project using your contract."

"Send me your AIA whatever contract and I have my boss review it. I have to get started on this project this week to keep on schedule. If we can't come to terms I will have to get someone else."

"I understand you need to keep to the schedule (which was not attached to his contract BTW) and I understand if you need to get someone else in there but I cannot sign your contract."

I guess I'm the exception when it comes to subcontractors since I'm the only one who has ever questioned his contract......

 

[480sparky]

Everything is negotiable. If you can't come to a meeting, then it's better to have never signed his to start with.

Hopefully your business sense will prove to him you are worthy, and he'll either hire you for this project, or possibly in the future.

 

[zbang]

I absolutely hate it when someone says "nobody's every complained" as if that makes everything OK. Unless you're really hungry, stick to you guns. I'm a fan of starting things out by handing over -my- standard agreements "so we have something to talk about".

 

[CopperTone]

if you feel you are being rushed into signing then you are. Anyone on the level will have no problem reviewing and listening to your concerns of the contract and possibly revising it. To be threatened with "I'll get someone else" - well maybe he should.
You should think about that.

that contract heavily favors the GC in legalease terms I bet.

So, would they sign the contract if revised by your attorney? ask that.

Don't be rushed - you could get screwed in the end because you were "afraid" to open your mouth and put your foot down. Let some other EC get taken advantage of.

Sounds like you won't do that anyway.

 

[celtic]

Hopefully your business sense will prove to him you are worthy, and he'll either hire you for this project, or possibly in the future.

or...

...maybe the GC will be intimidated by the fact that he has an EC on his hands that can read/comprehend a 13 page contract w/o falling asleep.

 

[gardiner]

You may find his statement about never being questioned is the same one he used on all the subs. I have have never seen a fair contract that was not negotiable to some extent.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Unless you're really hungry, stick to you guns.

and if you're really hungry BE SURE to stick to your guns.
when things are tight is not the time to decide to pay for the privilege of
working for free.

he'll get someone else? honey, you ARE someone else.... you're not his first
rodeo....

house remodel? thirteen pages long? alphabet soup? loop hole casserole?
no schedule? a blah blah answer to your objections? make it easy on yourself.
instead of signing the thing, just give him your ATM card and pin number, and
ask him to pull the blankie over you when he's done.


randy

 

[LarryFine]

He said he works with dozens of sub's and no one has ever questioned his contract.

I had one like that. We went over it, changed a few things, and they agreed.

Number one was the clause that made us responsible for the job site security. We didn't even have a key! :roll:

I absolutely hate it when someone says "nobody's every complained" as if that makes everything OK.

That goes hand-in-hand with "Gee, that's never failed before."

 

[dduffee260]

About every contract we sign is that long. We work for mostly larger contractors and projects ranging from $ 50,000 to $1,500,000. We really have not had much problems with them because they usually run a pretty good ship and we all help each other how eve we can to get a project completed.

 

[satcom]

I received a contract for a house remodel from a GC. The contract was thirteen pages long so I forwarded it to my attorney for review. I also reviewed it and found too many problems to list here.

Anyway, my attorney said he would have to spend about three hours rewriting it to make it neutral to both parties. I called the GC and suggested we use a standard AIA A401 Subcontractor Agreement instead. He said he works with dozens of sub's and no one has ever questioned his contract.

"I'm sure there are subcontractors out there who will sign anything just to get work but I cannot enter into this project using your contract."

"Send me your AIA whatever contract and I have my boss review it. I have to get started on this project this week to keep on schedule. If we can't come to terms I will have to get someone else."

"I understand you need to keep to the schedule (which was not attached to his contract BTW) and I understand if you need to get someone else in there but I cannot sign your contract."

I guess I'm the exception when it comes to subcontractors since I'm the only one who has ever questioned his contract......

We see it every day, please please give me the work I will sign thing, I will do the job even if i starve or loose everything I own, I am an electrician, and understand my main purpose in life is to be sure everyone else but me makes money on my work.

 

[sparky 134]

I received a voicemail this morning from the GC. He said he is unable to sign my A401 contract. He said his insurance company requires him to use his contract otherwise he is liable (liable for what I'm not sure).

He wished me well in my future endeavors and maybe in the future we can come to agreeable terms on a project. He also said he couldn't lose any more time on this project and that he must find another electrical contractor.

I got the impression this project was already behind schedule and if you add a bad contract on top, it has all the makings for a rough ride.

 

[mivey]

He said his insurance company requires him to use his contract otherwise he is liable (liable for what I'm not sure).

Maybe he has had to dance with his insurance company before. He should be willing to assume any reasonable liability for his owrk, as should you. He should not be forcing you to accept liability that does not belong to you.

You may be better off to take a pass on this guy for now.

 

[electricmanscott]

He said he works with dozens of sub's and no one has ever questioned his contract.

"I guess I'm the exception when it comes to subcontractors since I'm the only one who has ever questioned his contract......

More likely that your the only one that has ever read it.

 

[CopperTone]

were there things in the contract that were unreasonable or that you thought were wrong or fishy? like what for example?

sometimes contracts say alot but don't mean alot - sometimes they are the other way around though.

so this GC thinks he can just call some other EC and get him to jump and sign anything and get right to work?

I suppose if you want to work with this GC maybe you should read it thoroughly and or pay your attorney to review it and identify exactly the issues you have with the contract and approach the GC afterward explaining your isssues and see if you can find agreeable terms for future work.

 

[cowboyjwc]

The one's I like are the ones with late charges, but no early completion bonuses.

If you ask for the bonus though, the late chages will usually go away.

We were building the new mall here in town and all the contractors that got the job were walking around with their chests puffed out. They were just doing ground work and starting some of the framing when the rains came, as much as 3" in one day and the site couldn't dry out, so bad most days you couldn't even get on to the site. that's when everyone discovered that there were no "rain days" in the contract they signed, and when you're 20 days or so behind that can be a real eye opener.:roll:

 

[Fulthrotl]

The one's I like are the ones with late charges, but no early completion bonuses.

i was asked to sign one with a 5% penalty of the total price of the contract,
per 24 hour period. not workday..... every sunrise was 5%.

we were unable to reach a common ground on that one.

my gangbox, material, and permit were gone by 9 am the following morning.

the inspector from the city was there by 11 am, with a 7 day comply or face
utility disconnection notice. the person who replaced me got the scoop from
the inspector, when they pulled a permit in their name..... he did really well on
the deal, almost 200k well.... he got my contact number from the old permit, and
called to ask me what happened..... i told him.... :smile: he priced accordingly.

 

[wirenut1972]

sparky

sparky

sparky134, check your PM.

I think.........just check your PM. I just got a call (this morning) from somebody I used to work for in your neck of the woods, builder was looking for me to sign a contract ASAP.

I won't do his contract either, I did do it on the builders terms in the past and it was a rough ride.

Always stick to your guns

 

[usediesel]

I am building some dorms on a university where the liquidated damages are $6,000 dollars a day plus we have to pay for hotels and transportation for the (almost 2,500) students! Let's hope this one finishes on time.