Journeymen - what tools?

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wolfman56

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I'm working with a young company, non union. I need to come up with a list for company policy related to what tools a journeymen, or trainee, will be required to own, and have with them. We do a large variety of types of work. Presently as the Super. I've been loaning my personal tools. But that has to stop. The biggest problem is with drills cordless and corded. Also one Journeymen has a nice fluke meter that they use for all testing,(Usually just voltage, or continuity, and is it hot.) but I can't help thinking that most of the time, this could be done faster with a WIGGIE, or VOL-CON.
What's most common out there?
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

I work for a large Merit shop and basically if it is a non power operated hand tool we supply it our selfs.

All power tools corded or cordless are by the company, yes some people bring their own in by choice.

All expendables are on the company, hack saw blades, drill bits etc.

The company provides everyone with a non contact voltage tester, ear plugs, safety glasses, helmets and fingerless gloves to handle fixtures with.

The workers provide, screwdrivers, nut drivers, adjustable wrench, channel locks, linesmen, hacksaw, file, drywall saw, rotosplits, knife, flashlight, small level, hammer, tape measure and a solenoid type tester (wiggys).

This is a bare minimum, ideally they will have a socket set, 24" level, punches up to 1 1/4", open end wrench set, combination square.
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

I know it's tough on green helpers but they need everything that the journeyman needs or they will be borrowing and that's where trouble starts.First off if the journeyman lends his whatever then he will have to find whoever to get it back if he needs it.This costs the company in wasted time.If it get's lost or broken then what, the helper usually says i will buy you a new one NEXT WEEK what does he do till then.Borrowing must be kept to a min.I once lent my chain to a helper and got it back in 2 pieces, he helped me out because it was too long ( wonder why i got pissed)Bottom line is they need all the basic tools.Personally if i carry all my tools i need to have 2 large tool boxes on wheels.Have had helpers that could put all there tools in a small box and they ask me why i have so many.
The basic list at min.for ALL THE MEN.
1. klines line pliers
2 diag cutters
3.tape measure
4 hacksaw
5 hammer
6 screw drivers including stubby
7 nut drivers
8 meter for volts and ohms
9 pluggy with gfci tester
10 wire strippers
11 knife
12 10 in 1 (suggested only)
13 thread tapper (journeyman only)
14 drop chain
15 tool belt and apron to hold staples and wire
nuts
16 1/2 thru 2inch punch and wrench
17 cheap socket set at min
18 wrenches from 3/8 to 1 inch
19 a unibit unless company supplies
20 N E C BOOK Yes it is a tool (journeymen only)
power tools,benders ,fishtape usually supplied by company,but not always.

probably about $400 new and that is a short list.
If a helper can't afford this then maybe they could buy thru company over short time , start with the basics but in 10 weeks should have them all.What good is the helper if he can't do a job because he doesn't have a tool?
I might come off at being tough but lending tools has cost me far to many $$$$ It's one thing to help a fellow electrician out because he lost something and needs a loan for the day , but if it's every day then thats a problem
ADD TO THE LIST GUY'S
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

Jim, I must comment in agreement on one item,

N E C BOOK Yes it is a tool
Click to expand...
this is mandatory for an aspiring apprentice.

Now, I must say if a company requires "unibits" or any bits, I would think they would replace them unless the company is mega cheap.

Looking at this,
What good is the helper if he can't do a job because he doesn't have a tool?
Click to expand...
good point, but a helper is a helper and should only be required to carry what is necessary.

Remember you are in Fl and all are under paid.

Roger
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

We have a basic list all electricians must supply that is close to Jim's list except the VOM. We supply all new apprentices with basic tools, our policy is; one they hardly make any money as it is and two a day without tools could be lost money to us. Should they leave within one year the tools are returned.

None of our employees carry tool belts, they utilize tool bags or tool brief cases (we purchase either they prefer)


We supply everything else
1/2, 3/8, 1/4 sockets, matching torque wrenches and combo open/closed wrenches
VOM-Fluke 83
Fluke AC/DC amp clamp
megger
KO cutters
cable cutters
and all power tools

In addition any tools the mech feels he needs we will purchase.

We use to replace lost personal tools BUTTTTTTTT a few took advantage of the policy, so we put a stop to it.
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

Brian your working for a fine company.Down here they would have you tested for drugs if you even suggested all of that.
I just can't see how a helper can get very far without tools before he is borrowing and we all know the outcome of that.My attitude is if he is taking this job as a career he might as well start with all the toys.If this is just a paycheck to him, do yourself a favor and don't hire him.I know I'm hard on men, but I'm after performance and dollars, seen to many helpers come and go because they find the trade hard work on there way up.Also seen some green kid's do just fine and they become our electricians of tomorrow
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

OK Jim with this harda** attitude, do you offer and pay for their formal schooling, all 4 years of it?

It seems as though if you are really wanting to turn them into electricians of tomorrow, you would be willing to invest in them for your own benefit.


Roger

[ December 16, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

If any amount of old work is involved I'd add a fence mending tool. Mine is made by I think Crescent - I've found this thing to be incredibly useful for pulling old staples without damaging cable. Its also useful for hammering in tight spaces and the pointy end is good for whacking stubborn KO's out. A Klein multistepped rethreader is good to have too.

Maybe in the "loaner" category, but a CircuitSeeker and SureTest are invaluable for evaluating old work.
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

I am a bit leery about this list business since such a list will always leave things out and omit important items. For instancem there hasn't been a mention of gloves nor Gator Ade.
A cordless drill is virtually a must have.
If the job involves MC/AC cable then you would list a RotoSplit. But if you don't use it, then don't require it.
I would add to the list:
16) ChannelLocks [groove joint pliers]
17) ViceGrips [for obvious reasons]
18) 6" half round file
19) Cold chisel [some use an old screwdriver as a "beater" implement; some use a brand new Klein 600 to tighten lock nuts, chip concrete and other such tasks :( ]

~Peter
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

Peter, do you really have employees supply gatorade and cordless drills?

Since Jim ran from this question, let me ask you, do you invest any thing back into an apprentice, or is it just take?

Roger

[ December 17, 2003, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

Roger, an apprentice is getting training in one the best paying, most satisfying careers available to someone without a four-year degree. That's his "payoff" for his years and dollars invested, and frankly I think it's a good deal.

If a kid doesn't think his future is worth a few hundred dollars in tools (out of a paycheck that dwarfs most common labor positions), then I don't think too much of them.

Maybe I'm just a hardass too, I can't really say. I had a very trying apprenticeship myself, but I'm a free man with a valuable trade today. I can go anywhere in america I choose and make a fine living, and to me that's worth the tools I bought, the s*** I ate, the holes I dug, etc.
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

So your basic idea here is

"I ate %$&# so they can eat #&%$"

I think that time has gone.

I guess I was lucky I was treated with respect.

And now that I am the boss I may kid around with the new guys, not many of them are unhappy to work under me, most will bust their chops to help me get the job done. :)
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

Bob, I think some of the reason for reluctance to invest in an apprentices training, is the fear of the insecure people being surpassed by them.

BTW noxx, I never said they shouldn't buy their tools. (including a code book) How was the s^%$* you ate? :roll:

Roger
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

"trainee"

Hammer-- the same style as everyone else
tape measure
flat head screwdriver
phillips screwdriver
lineman
strippers-- no not that type
diagonal cutters
pencil
plug tester
toolbelt

Maybees
speedy flat and phillips
yankee-- almost as good as a cordless
torpedo level
nut drivers
needlenose plyers
tap tool
code book-- good but not an immediate "need"
wiggy-- after proper training of testing "hot"

"journeymen"

Everything with the exception of some specialty tools,IE megger, gaussmeter,etc.

Mike P.
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

Roger;

Bob, I think some of the reason for reluctance to invest in an apprentices training, is the fear
of the insecure people being surpassed by them
Click to expand...
LOL!

Actually, I DO believe that's a very common scenario - it's just kind of funny (to me) reading it!
(because that's something I would say right off the top of my head!).

My feelings are as they always have been: Education is very important.
I would supply a person with the tools necessary for working on a given project if I was in the position to do so.
Donated tools to fellow workers from my Personal "Cache" of "Extra Tools"/"Just-In-Case Tools" when someone needed tools, only my "Cache" has dwindled away (both the "Cache" of tools and the "Cash" to re-create the "Cache" of tools).

Currently, my tool supply is just enough to cover nearly all scenarios - and this has resulted in 3 Klien toolbags, 4 "flip-top" toolboxes, 3 large Bank Courier transport bags, 10 smaller Courier Transport bags, 3 briefcases with test equipment inside, all kinds of power tools, ladders and moving dollies + carts - plus to top this off, 3 different briefcases for paperwork (1 large rolling case - works well for surveys and carry-on for flights to do surveys, 1 "normal" sized briefcase for meetings, and one collapsable multi pocket shoulder strap bag - for in-field logistics).
Opps, forgot to mention a few other things - such as Digital + Film Cameras, Several Computers + associated applications, and "a few" books!

To me, proper training for peronnel entering the field will include the use of as many tools possible. They need to get shown the proper way to use any given tools, not just let loose to figure it out by themselves.
I really am proud to hear of the shops that supply personnel with tools - although some supply more than others, the fact that even a screwdriver will be supplied is great! Never had that when I was younger, so reading this brings a tear to my eye!

Gotta go cry my eyes out ;)

Scott35
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

BTW noxx, I never said they shouldn't buy their tools. (including a code book) How was the s^%$* you ate?
Click to expand...
Steamin'!

I probably shouldn't post when I'm in need of coffee, I've been advised it makes me quite surly. :D
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

One thing our Union does, is transfer apprentices every 12 months. While this can put a hardship on a contractor in the short term for the apprentice they usally get experience in a variety of jobs.

WE FOUND A YOUNG MAN A GOOD WORKER GOT HIM IN THE PROGRAM., THIS FRIDAY IS TRANSFER DAY AND GUESS WHAT OF COURSE FOR THE SECOND TIME IN THREE YEARS THE UNION HALL DOES NOT TELL US WERE NOT GETTING A REPLACEMENT (No Guts There) Seems the big contractors are taking them all, I called the hall and they told me the apprentices are their's to do with as they like and told me to go fly a kite.


I"M SO XXYNDDASE MAD I CAN SCREAM. AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

Hey Scotthompson, how big is your company and how big of a truck do you use to haul all that stuff around?

For a serious question, how important would you all say a set of sockets and a ratchet is? The biggest thing I normally work in would probably be a 1200 or 1600A SE equipment. So far i have only gotten the klien nut drivers and the attachment so that I can use small size nut drivers in my battery drill.

As for me and getting tools I have always bought all my own tools. Down to my very first set of kliens. I dabbled with auto mechanics (to dirty) and painting (not enough tools and to messy) before I settled here.

I too ate a lot of crow early on and my first master told me I should be paying him for what i was learning as well.
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

OK Jim with this harda** attitude, do you offer and pay for their formal schooling, all 4 years of it?

H--- NO
Have never seen anyone offering me free education.Are they signing a contract with me to work for the next xxxyears at xxx$
Training is at ones own exspince.
The reward is more pay
Let's see if a school system will pay for 4 years of college for me to be a teacher.
Let's see a truck firm pay for your learning to get a CDL (they will emburse you after you stay so long)
If they want to advance to the next level ,read up and take classes.Maybe mommy or daddy will pay.
Train them on company money NO WAY
Let them see what guys make that have training and invest in them selfs.
Go ahead call be a hard a--
I am not in this for fun.
 
Re: Journeymen - what tools?

Ji Ji Jim, did yous not get e e enough strinks last n n night? :D

Roger
 
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