Junction Box as Pull Through

[Little Bill]

Would a junction box have to be accessible if wires are just pulled through without a splice? Assume conduit is used and both conduits (in/out) line up so wire can be pulled in/out. Code says the reason for them to be accessible is so the wiring can be accessed without removing parts of building or structure. If there are no splices, why would the wiring need to be accessed?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The rule requires that the wiring be accessible, so that requires the pull box cover to be accessible. There is no reason to expect that you could put a fish tape in one conduit, through the box, and out the other conduit. Just because you could pull new wire through by attaching the new wire to to the old wire does not make the wiring in the pull box accessible.

314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures to Be Accessible.
Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole enclosures shall be installed so that wiring and devices contained in the boxes, conduit bodies, or handhole enclosures can be rendered accessible in accordance with 314.29(A) and (B).

I read the requirement that the wiring in the box be accessible as meaning I can take the box cover off and touch the wiring.

 

[Little Bill]

The rule requires that the wiring be accessible, so that requires the pull box cover to be accessible. There is no reason to expect that you could put a fish tape in one conduit, through the box, and out the other conduit. Just because you could pull new wire through by attaching the new wire to to the old wire does not make the wiring in the pull box accessible.

I read the requirement that the wiring in the box be accessible as meaning I can take the box cover off and touch the wiring.

https://link.nfpa.org/publications/70/2023/chapters/3/articles/314#ID000700002000

I guess the conduit and fish tape makes sense.

 

[SceneryDriver]

Would a junction box have to be accessible if wires are just pulled through without a splice? Assume conduit is used and both conduits (in/out) line up so wire can be pulled in/out. Code says the reason for them to be accessible is so the wiring can be accessed without removing parts of building or structure. If there are no splices, why would the wiring need to be accessed?

I have a friend who's an electrician in Australia. Their code allows burying a j-box with splices in it, as long as the splices are soldered (permanent connection). That has to be fun to troubleshoot.

Move to Australia if you want to bury j-boxes, I guess.

Or maybe just do what the house flipper did to my friend's house. Buried j-boxes and open flying Romex splices in the walls everywhere!



SceneryDriver

 

[jmellc]

Even if it were allowed, I would never do it. Setting up a likely problem for someone down the road.

 

[electrofelon]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say I think the no buried splice box rule is stupid. First, if one is not confident in their splices such that they need to be accessible for future servicing, then perhaps you should learn how to splice better, or reevaluate your career choice. Secondly, providing for ease of future additions or troubleshooting should not be a code issue it's a design choice. Third, note we can have non accessible or known location splices outside.

 

[Jpflex]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say I think the no buried splice box rule is stupid. First, if one is not confident in their splices such that they need to be accessible for future servicing, then perhaps you should learn how to splice better, or reevaluate your career choice. Secondly, providing for ease of future additions or troubleshooting should not be a code issue it's a design choice. Third, note we can have non accessible or known location splices outside.

I disagree because property owners change and new owners may not know covered j box locations

Second, one person's competence or lack there of in making splices may have an affect in another electrician who is competent, you should not trust other people's work

 

[Fred B]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say I think the no buried splice box rule is stupid. First, if one is not confident in their splices such that they need to be accessible for future servicing, then perhaps you should learn how to splice better, or reevaluate your career choice. Secondly, providing for ease of future additions or troubleshooting should not be a code issue it's a design choice. Third, note we can have non accessible or known location splices outside.

I disagree, had many trouble calls that eventually led to finding multiple buried j boxes. What a head ache deciphering location of fault and then HO anger over opening walls trying to locate to fix, and a fifteen minute fix ends up hours.
I never bury, can't say what the next guy will do to my install though.
Only reason might think a buried j box would be ok is it would make any alteration post install a lot less easy for the handyman "Here is a wire, Lets use that" extension of a circuit.

 

[electrofelon]

I disagree, had many trouble calls that eventually led to finding multiple buried j boxes. What a head ache deciphering location of fault and then HO anger over opening walls trying to locate to fix, and a fifteen minute fix ends up hours.
I never bury, can't say what the next guy will do to my install though.
Only reason might think a buried j box would be ok is it would make any alteration post install a lot less easy for the handyman "Here is a wire, Lets use that" extension of a circuit.

Seems to me the problem is the guy who can't make a splice, not the buried j-,box. I absolutely refuse to accept code rules to accommodate crappy work.

 

[Fred B]

Seems to me the problem is the guy who can't make a splice, not the buried j-,box. I absolutely refuse to accept code rules to accommodate crappy work.

I'll stand behind my splices all day, but I have seen too many that are total disasters. Also seen the j-box used as an excuse to make multiple splices along a run to avoid actually rewiring to fix properly issues created at some point, either to move locations or add onto extend a circuit, then bury it to hide the mess.
Found one that when finally opening wall and ceiling had 10 j-boxes on 30ft of wire, mixture of wire sizes, some undersized for circuit, only guess is someone was trying to use up some scrap wire. Another site had multiple boxes buried in the shower area wall, again seeming to try to use up scraps.

 

[electrofelon]

I'll stand behind my splices all day, but I have seen too many that are total disasters. Also seen the j-box used as an excuse to make multiple splices along a run to avoid actually rewiring to fix properly issues created at some point, either to move locations or add onto extend a circuit, then bury it to hide the mess.
Found one that when finally opening wall and ceiling had 10 j-boxes on 30ft of wire, mixture of wire sizes, some undersized for circuit, only guess is someone was trying to use up some scrap wire. Another site had multiple boxes buried in the shower area wall, again seeming to try to use up scraps.

Refer to post #9

 

[Fred B]

Refer to post #9

But until they "require" qualified workers here, buried j-boxes will continue to be an issue. Dealing here with "What no one can see doesn't need to be "CODE". Lights come on so what's the issue?" mentality.

 

[electrofelon]

But until they "require" qualified workers here, buried j-boxes will continue to be an issue. Dealing here with "What no one can see doesn't need to be "CODE". Lights come on so what's the issue?" mentality.

So where do you stop with rules and codes to make up for incompetence?

 

[petersonra]

My personal opinion is the code should stop making design choices like this, or trying to figure out what someone might want to do twenty years from now. If it is safe now, it should be allowed.

 

[Little Bill]

My point was for the case of just pulling through a box with no splices. What are the odds you would ever need to access the wiring in that box with no splices.

 

[LarryFine]

My point was for the case of just pulling through a box with no splices. What are the odds you would ever need to access the wiring in that box with no splices.

I think a C-condulet would be a better choice if that's the intent.

 

[Little Bill]

I think a C-condulet would be a better choice if that's the intent.

Yes it would , but a question was asked about a JB by someone. That was my reason for posting.

However, in the same code rule, a C-Condulet would have to be accessible as well. It has a cover just like an LB. Code says "conduit fittings", which a C-Condulet is.

 

[hillbilly1]

Seems to me the problem is the guy who can't make a splice, not the buried j-,box. I absolutely refuse to accept code rules to accommodate crappy work.

The best splices in the world is no match for a direct lightning strike. The bends and splices are weak points for high voltage transients.