Junction Boxes

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chicago_sparky

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I have a debate going on here, and I was wondering other peoples thoughts.
I'm a second year apprentice, and my father has been an electrician for over 30 years. I work with different journeyman all the time, and here's the problem. When pulling multiple circuits thru a box, let's say I need to drop 1 circuit for a device, do the rest of the wires get looped with slack in the box, or get pulled taught? Everyone says different things. Is it preference? My dad says leave a loop so the wires are easier to get at should you need to. A few of the journeyman I work with say out of site out of mind, what if someone down the line see's the wires and ties into them, and it's a dedicated circuit. What are your thoughts?
 
It is preference, but FWIW, I do as your dad does.

Roger
 
Straight through, unless there is a reasonable chance that a circuit may need to be spliced in the near future.
 
Keep in mind that there was a change in the 2005 NEC where looping wires like this will affect box-fill calculations. From the Summary of Changes in Article 314 of the NECH:

314.16(B)(1): Revised to require a two-conductor addition to the box fill calculation where a looped, unbroken conductor has a total length that is not less than twice the minimum length required for free conductors in 300.14.​
Of course, this may not make any difference in Chicago.

Otherwise, I agree with Celtic, Trevor, and John.
 
ok...so most of you guys are with me, so I can kinda shut up dad. Here was my whole debate with him. If i'm figuring my box fill, and I loop say 4" of wire inside the box, even though it only feeds thru, and i'm only required to count the circuit as 1 wire, dont I defeat the purpose. Even though code says I only need to figure it that way, why have all the excess crap in there.
 
chicago_sparky said:
ok...so most of you guys are with me, so I can kinda shut up dad.
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Good luck with that...LOL....you try that and Dad will have you looking for buckets of steam :D
 
jeff43222 said:
Keep in mind that there was a change in the 2005 NEC where looping wires like this will affect box-fill calculations. From the Summary of Changes in Article 314 of the NECH:

314.16(B)(1): Revised to require a two-conductor addition to the box fill calculation where a looped, unbroken conductor has a total length that is not less than twice the minimum length required for free conductors in 300.14.
​
Of course, this may not make any difference in Chicago.

Otherwise, I agree with Celtic, Trevor, and John.
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Generally the required length is 6" so you could have a loop of 11.999" and it still only counts as one conductor.
 
I worked in a plant for a year as a sub. They had an in house inspector, and part of the facility specifications were that wires pulled through a box would NOT be looped inside the box. It may have been to prevent unwanted future splicing, but it was also suggested that some affect on power quality was possible through the hundreds or thousands of loops in all the branch ckts. throughout the plant...what do I know?
 
I like your dad. Leave a loop, you just may be "the next guy" someday. Labeling the box and tagging the wires are the best way to avoid problems down the road.

Bob on the left coast.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
For other than dedicated circuits i would loop assuming there is no box fill problem.I have been the next guy too often.
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I am with Jim. The difference in labor and material is just about negligible in these cases and it can make a big difference in the future.
 
Let me answer from the perspective of the homeowner (no, this is not a DIY issue). Whoever wired my garage did not leave any loops. In fact, there is so little slack in the conductors attached to each switch or receptacle, that you can't pull the devices out of the box. I wonder how it was done. I can only guess that once the wires were tightened onto their respective screws, he pulled the device into the box by pulling the NM tight. He probable thought this would make for a neater job. I strongly suspect a DIY job by the previous-to-the-previous owner.

The result is that when I hired an electrician to replace my service panel and to do as much other stuff as could be done in one day, he didn't touch the garage. He said it would have taken more time than it was worth, given the place at which the garage appeared on the "list of priorities" that I gave to the electrician. So whenever I get around to upgrading anything in the garage (like adding GFCI protection), it is going to cost me more than it should. And I have the installer of the existing wires to thank for that.

Speaking on behalf of your customer, please leave a loop.
 
I would vote for leave a loop--not always but usually.

I was in maintenance--I was ALWAYS the-next-guy! :(

Charlie-

Thanks for your HO's perspective. It's too often overlooked.
 
triphase said:
celtic.....Have You ever been the next guy?
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I have...several times. However, I still pull straight through. I don't like 'courtesy loops'. They take up too much room in panels and boxes.
 
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