Just for fun (another bid)....

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celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
EC walked off a new 2-family job...completed service(load side)...wired outlets ONLY in one apt (510 sq. ft). Remainder of apt AND main "apt." need to be wired ~ and in a hurry.
The main "apt." is 5000 sq. ft. I guess it's some sort of a mother/daughter set-up?
The basics:
- Gas heat
- 304 openings (62 switches, 105 recepts., 150 light fixtures, 20 Tele/Cable jacks, 1 jacuzzi, 4 AC compressors, etc)
- All romex/plastic boxes
At 5.5k sq. ft, I still haven't covered the whole print...but this is "just for fun", so what kind of numbers are we looking at so far?
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

I haven't bid a residential job in 25 years, so I won't give a number, but I will say be careful. If the EC walked, there was a reason, and it may bite you.
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

T and M paid weekly! If the work seems to be professionally done I to would be careful. By the way did the GC or the owner say whythe other EC left?
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

The main "apt." is 5000 sq. ft. I guess it's some sort of a mother/daughter set-up?
The basics:
- Gas heat
- 304 openings (62 switches, 105 recepts., 150 light fixtures, 20 Tele/Cable jacks, 1 jacuzzi, 4 AC compressors, etc)
- All romex/plastic boxes
At 5.5k sq. ft, I still haven't covered the whole print...but this is "just for fun", so what kind of numbers are we looking at so far?


If the previous EC walked, than you will need to cover yourself. I would charge $100.00/opening (fixtures, receptacles, switches), Owner to provide fixtures, $50.00/opening for Cable/Tele jacks, $1,000.00 for the jacuzzi, $1,000.00 for each A/C. Before submitting your bid, 1st find out why the other EC left the jobsite.

[ July 16, 2005, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: tnt8197 ]
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

I said that I have had trouble with residential pricing, so I started looking at bids and estimates from the local competition for the last few years ( companies that I respect, that have been in business at least 15 or 20 years ). I bid something similar to this a couple years back for 25K, on of the local guys says 33K ( I have a copy of his bid, I know the GC )and then some fly by night comes along an bids 11K. The GC tells me a year later that it cost 28K to finish. I haven't seen your prints but I can tell from the number of lights that this is a custom job and will be drawn out. There's no mention of phones, data, intercom or security but some of this will show up. I have a feeling that you know what this job went for and I'm looking forward hearing about it. No one leaves a job because they had trouble carrying all the money to the bank.
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

I would call the EC that walked.He is most likely going to say something negative.You need to be very carefull here as you know something went south
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

I would charge T&M paid weekly as well. Also I would advise the GC that this fee doesn't cover any call backs for things that failed inspection that were installed by the original EC.
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

The original EC told the HOs he was having trouble manning the job ~ I understand that BUT...as the HO and EC are friends something must have gone sour - something I think we all agree on. The friendship is probably in the garbage now...it would have been more prudent for the EC to just sub the job to another EC or hire a few extra hands for this job to save both the friendship and business's good name.
Now after having 2 seconds to reflect on that last statement...my last job was also one this EC walked away from (the ceiling fan missing neutral for the old lady). Something must be amuck with his shop - which is not a one-man band, he has several trucks and crews.

:p
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

It would be interesting to know how much money the original EC took with him when he walked. Some companies are better at starting jobs than finishing them. Don't be fooled by the size of the company, crooks come in all shapes and sizes. If this was a normal job he may have gotten 25% up front and a least one more draw ( could be a nice chunk of change for very little work ). Having trouble manning the job is no excuse. If he signed a contract, he should be forced to complete the work or pay a penalty. I don't like it when a homeowner tries to screw me but I also don't like it when an EC tries to get over on the homeowner. I have seen contractors leave because they figured they had already gotten the lion's share of the money so why finish. This looks bad for the trade. It's they only reason I've ever suggested that a HO take legal action.
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

Celtic,

Unless times are slow in your area and you really need the job, DON'T worry about selling someone the T&M idea. If they don't like it they can call someone else.

I have known a number of EC's over the years and none of them would consider touching a job like this unless it was T&M.

The bottom line is that you are in business to make a profit. Taking on a job like this as a bid could ended up costing you money if you have to fix other peoples mistakes.
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

Originally posted by growler:
It would be interesting to know how much money the original EC took with him when he walked.

If he signed a contract...
Click to expand...
It would be nice to know...BUT...in talking with the HO, this EC was the ONLY sub that did NOT have a contract! The HO and EC have a business and a personal relationship - both of which, I am sure, are baked.

Originally posted by stud696981:
Celtic,

Unless times are slow in your area and you really need the job, DON'T worry about selling someone the T&M idea. If they don't like it they can call someone else.
Click to expand...
I agree with everything you've said. Things are a bit slow - but not slow enough where I'll ever consider jeopardizing my finances for the benefit of others.

Originally posted by blackrd:
20-26k
Click to expand...
I think you and I have agreed on a few "just for fun" and fan type estimates here previously. Once again, we are in agreement ~ my number - so far - is at $23,354...NOT including the service work; the landscape lighting; or "fancy stuff" (media room, intercoms, music system, etc).

I have to go over the print w/a fine tooth comb and make sure I missed NOTHING....somebody ;)
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

***UPDATE***
Here's what I found out:
- While it's true that the EC had "manpower" issues, that is because the HO stopped paying...no pay will result in an immeadiate man power issue. This tidbit was gleemed from a contact at the supply house (a very trusted source).

After going over the print, meeting with the HO's and adding the "new" items (actual layout has changed from print)...I arrived at $26390. Taking into account the previous work (which I will need to inspect before I sign off/accept it) I'll knock $4700...for a total of $21,660.
It might seem high (or even low to some)...but to me it is accurate. I will have to put other jobs on the back burner to get the rough done to get the job back on schedule. This number might actually INCREASE after I speak with the AHJ in the AM. I meet with the HOs again at noon.

We'll see what happens...

Thanks for the advice folks :)
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

Originally posted by blackrd:
Damn Im good!
Click to expand...
Not that good
:eek:

The HO is sticking to their guns that "the other guys were at 13.5...".

I ran the estimate 3 different ways...sq. ft, per opening, and actual device counts - all came in in the 20's...I actually stopped doing one run through when I hit the 20k mark.

The only way these other ECs could come it 13.5 was code minimum and then "surpise" the HO on the extras/changes - that were discussed and should, IMO, be a part of the bid.

"Que sera, sera... whatever will be, will be"
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

This sounds more like a poker game, if the homeowner wants to bluff you have to call him. You hold all the cards, he's in a hurry and any contractor that bids the job will be leery of it because someone else walked. I would leave him an estimate with plenty of room for additional charges and stipulate a large amount up front and don't put any finish dates on the contract in case you have to play hard ball. Make sure you are paid before any work is done. If stuck it to his buddy he'll try and stick it to you to cover his earlier loses. I wouldn't worry about the homeowner until he finds someone that will actually finish the job for $ 13.5K. In reality I would steer clear if you have other work to do. This wont be a good job for ever who does it, even if they do get their money. The HO will have an attitude problem.
 
Re: Just for fun (another bid)....

Correct on all counts growler.
The last HO that didn't like my price - and was also in a hurry - told me "..that's ok, we have someone else lined up..". When they called back, I told them I was too busy. I do not like to play games - I'll help you if we can reach an agreement, but until then we are BOTH free get estimates/give estimates.
I would be shocked if this HO calls back...he dropped the names of 2 or 3 other established ECs as having gave the 13.5 price also. If they are willing to pick up the chips for 13.5, so be it.
The outstanding material cost are at about 8k+...figure about 250+ hours remain on the job ~ it doesn't add up to 13.5 in my book....and there is still no kitchen detail or mechanical details to be had!

I'm sure the HO is trying to cover loses also...if he gave the other guy a chunk, that came right off the bottom line to equal the 13.5.


Thanks.
 
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