Just painted some backboards...

[mdshunk]

Because I'm always looking for low-cost ways to improve the perception of value, I painted some panel backboards today to use during service changes. As I expected, they'd be downright expensive. From one sheet of plywood, I cut two at 24x48 and three at 24x32.

The backboards cost out as follows:

• Sheet of 23/32" Plywood, $20.88. That's $5.22 for each 200 amp backboard, and $3.48 for each 100 amp backboard.
• Paint was 23.74 for a gallon, and one quart exactly does three coats on all 5 backboards that you get from one sheet (2 front, 1 back). That's $1.48 in paint for the 200 amp backboard, and $.99 in paint for the 100 amp backboard.
• It takes 21 minutes to paint all three coats on each 200 amp backboard at 7 minutes per coat. Using a total real labor cost of $41.00/hour, it costs $12.30 to paint each 200 amp backboard.
• It takes 12 minutes to paint all three coats on each 100 amp backboard at 4 minutes per coat. Using labor data from the line above, it costs $8.20 to paint each 100 amp backboard.
• It takes 5 minutes to clean up between each of the three coats. Using labor data from above, it costs $2.56 per 200 amp backboard and $1.70 per 100 amp backboard for clean up tasks (washing out brush).
• I guessed at brush wear, and ascribed $.25 per 200 amp backboard and $.17 per 100 amp backboard.

That brings the total real costs before markup at $21.81 per 200 amp backboard and $14.54 per 100 amp backboard. They'll end up being pretty expensive, but they might be good tasks for "fill in" work for a guy needing to fill an hour at the end of the day who you might otherwise let go home with a full day's pay or who might just chat up the office girls.

 

[480sparky]

Don't believe in benchmarking, do ya, Marc? :grin:

 

[mdshunk]

Don't believe in benchmarking, do ya, Marc? :grin:

That's how I roll. You can't find labor units on backboard making in the Estimating PAL.

I just realized that I didn't account for time getting the plywood or cutting it up, but the basic idea is still the same. I routered a cove on the edges too, which took all of two minutes for all 5 since I happened to already have a suitable bit chucked up in the router.

I can't buy pre-painted backboards at any of my supply houses like some other guys can, so I thought I'd see how much it would cost to make some. 'spensive buggers if an electrician makes them. Like when I'm on T&M work, I always ask if they want me to sweep up or if they want to. I tell them, "Electricians are expensive maids", with a big smile. :wink:

 

[dwellselectric]

I have never seen anyone paint a backboard for a panel. Usually we just buy 1/2 sheet 3/4 ply one side sanded.

 

[stickboy1375]

I have never seen anyone paint a backboard for a panel. Usually we just buy 1/2 sheet 3/4 ply one side sanded.

Some just do it nice. I'll buy a 4x8 sheet and cut it into 3rd's for my panels...

 

[electricalperson]

im sure people wont mind paying a little extra for a nice piece of wood. makes for a much better professional looking install. :grin:

 

[480sparky]

I'm just waiting for the Megger report on them. :grin: :grin:

 

[Poolside]

backboards?

backboards?

Had me wondering about the backboards. :-? What are they used for?

Of course in these parts of the developed world, 99% of the services are of the combination meter/load center type that is flush mounted in stucco finish.


One of the big benefits to these forums is a chance to get to learn how things are installed and dealt with from around the country.:smile:

- Greg

 

[mdshunk]

im sure people wont mind paying a little extra for a nice piece of wood.

They might not, but I'm already near the high end of the market from a price standpoint. Any other material would justify a higher price, but I'm not certain that it is one the market would bear. I might legitimately have to add in 80 or 100 bucks to the price for a nice painted backboard with nicely routered edges. It was mostly an experiment, is all. If I can figure out a way to get these things cut, routered, and painted for almost nothing, I'll be using them.

 

[480sparky]

Sounds like a good 'make-work' project for slow work weeks. Pre-fab enough for several projects and you can get your per-unit price down.

 

[mdshunk]

Sounds like a good 'make-work' project for slow work weeks. Pre-fab enough for several projects and you can get your per-unit price down.

I never have slow weeks, but I sometimes do have an hour or two in a man's day here and there to fill out. Sometimes, they'd just go home because they ran long on a previous day. Other times, they might need a bit of work. Painting or cutting backboards might be more interesting than cleaning out the truck for the billionth time.

 

[mdshunk]

Had me wondering about the backboards. :-? What are they used for?

Basement panels, mainly. When the basement has a block wall or poured concrete wall, many installers favor fixing a piece of plywood to the concrete or block onto which the panel is fixed and it gives them a place above the panel to staple the cables to. On older buildings with stone foundation walls for the basement, two parallel 2x4's are "hung" from the floor joists next to the stone wall, and the plywood backboard is fixed to those 2x4's. I have a job coming up where a subpanel will be mounted on a backboard which will be attached to an existing 6x6 wooden post in a basement.

 

[480sparky]

Does wherever you buy the plywood from have a panel saw? If so, what would they charge you to cut the sheets instead of you doing it? And how would that compare to your labor costs?

 

[mdshunk]

Does wherever you buy the plywood from have a panel saw? If so, what would they charge you to cut the sheets instead of you doing it? And how would that compare to your labor costs?

Yes. You'd still have to stand there and watch them cut them (after you already waited while they were summoned), which is about the same amount of time it took me to put a couple marks on the plywood and cut them myself. Labor would be the same in that case. The only savings would be the wear on my own saw blade.

 

[480sparky]

Sounds like your shopping at (gasp!) Home Despot.

Can you have then cut for you and have them ready for when you arrive? You'll also save on labor because you aren't man-handling full sheets....

 

[mdshunk]

Can you have then cut for you and have them ready for when you arrive?

I think I'd have about a 23.46% chance of them getting it right, even if I faxed them a picture. I fax very clear material orders to my professional supply house, normally with part numbers and all, they still get it wrong sometimes.

 

[BryanMD]

Sub it out to a cabinet shop.

panel saw, router table, spray booth, no saw dust, no spilled paint

 

[mdshunk]

Sub it out to a cabinet shop.

panel saw, router table, spray booth, no saw dust, no spilled paint

Have you ever done that? My gut tells me they'd be the most expensive (and best looking) panel backboards known to mankind.

You did just spark an idea, however. What about white melamine covered plywood? Cut to size, router the edge, and no painting required! I'll have to price out a sheet of that stuff. That might be pretty high-class for not too much money.

 

[tonyou812]

Because I'm always looking for low-cost ways to improve the perception of value, I painted some panel backboards today to use during service changes. As I expected, they'd be downright expensive. From one sheet of plywood, I cut two at 24x48 and three at 24x32.

The backboards cost out as follows:

• Sheet of 23/32" Plywood, $20.88. That's $5.22 for each 200 amp backboard, and $3.48 for each 100 amp backboard.
• Paint was 23.74 for a gallon, and one quart exactly does three coats on all 5 backboards that you get from one sheet (2 front, 1 back). That's $1.48 in paint for the 200 amp backboard, and $.99 in paint for the 100 amp backboard.
• It takes 21 minutes to paint all three coats on each 200 amp backboard at 7 minutes per coat. Using a total real labor cost of $41.00/hour, it costs $12.30 to paint each 200 amp backboard.
• It takes 12 minutes to paint all three coats on each 100 amp backboard at 4 minutes per coat. Using labor data from the line above, it costs $8.20 to paint each 100 amp backboard.
• It takes 5 minutes to clean up between each of the three coats. Using labor data from above, it costs $2.56 per 200 amp backboard and $1.70 per 100 amp backboard for clean up tasks (washing out brush).
• I guessed at brush wear, and ascribed $.25 per 200 amp backboard and $.17 per 100 amp backboard.

That brings the total real costs before markup at $21.81 per 200 amp backboard and $14.54 per 100 amp backboard. They'll end up being pretty expensive, but they might be good tasks for "fill in" work for a guy needing to fill an hour at the end of the day who you might otherwise let go home with a full day's pay or who might just chat up the office girls.

Hey marc ever hear of dumpster diving. Its always shocks me at how much wood winds up in the bin at most construction sites. If im working on the site I have no problem in asking the GC if its ok if i take some wood.Even if its only big enough for one service ill take it. And its not even because im cheap, I just think its shamefull at this day in age to throw out that kind material. As of right now I have about 8-9 boards cut and painted black and ready to go. Yea I know its sad but thats usually what my Sundays consist of. Truck cleaning, organizing my garage/shop and getting ready for the comming week.

 

[iwire]

I am thinking if you go cabinet shop forget the paint, offer Cherry or Walnut veneers.