keeping civil discussion

[wyreman]

Does anyone have experience installing / repairing streetlight hit by a truck?
I've done it before but the poles were 12' hinged and never had the foundation bolts disturbed too bad
What I'm Looking at

1. harness to gradall lifting 25' streetlights from existing base
2. protect bypass wiring couple weeks until work complete
3. engineer stress test existing bolts for adequacy,
4. inspections / permits for a repair? I used to work for the government and my boss was the AHJ
5. concrete contractor to demolish concrete foundation as necc
6. precast [3000#] or new pour foundation
7. harness lift new pole onto new plate

Its on a sonatube foundation. The truck mustve been pretty tall.
The pole is canted about maybe 5-10^
base is at 2'-6"; pole 25'-6"; mounting ht is at 28'

Pole is 245LBS and each arm on the top weighs 75LBS for a total of 545LBS
The bolts are 17" long with a 3" hook into the concrete.


Of course they want me to just straighten it.
Well put on your big boy pants for sure.
I want to contract most of this out and tomorrow I will be making the calls.
Thanks!

 

[wyreman]

the civil discussion part is that I was tracking down the original installers, owners etc and ended up with the electrical engineer.
The person I really needed was the Civil Engineer =)
Its really a civil engineer question

 

[hillbilly1]

Is this California? Looks like they used straight anchor bolts, as I have never seen a L anchor bolt pull out of the base. If the base is not cracked anywhere, I’ve seen new anchor bolts down drilled and epoxied in. Definitely would not reuse pole, too much liability even if the flags is straightened.

 

[LarryFine]

I thought you were asking for a congenial conversation.

 

[hillbilly1]

Is this California? Looks like they used straight anchor bolts, as I have never seen a L anchor bolt pull out of the base. If the base is not cracked anywhere, I’ve seen new anchor bolts down drilled and epoxied in. Definitely would not reuse pole, too much liability even if the flags is straightened.

I hate autocorrect, “flange”, not flags!

 

[Hv&Lv]

That must have been a pretty good hit. Those bolts looked stretched out in the concrete.
They definitely need to be replaced

 

[hillbilly1]

That must have been a pretty good hit. Those bolts looked stretched out in the concrete.
They definitely need to be replaced

I went through a plan review with a reviewer that came from Cali, he would not approve L bolts, and wanted straights. He said L bolts would pull out, where straights wouldn’t. I call bs on it, my pole guy, who had been doing it for 30+ years said he never heard of it before either. He had to special order the bolts because nobody carried them. They do some strange things out in California!

 

[Hv&Lv]

I went through a plan review with a reviewer that came from Cali, he would not approve L bolts, and wanted straights. He said L bolts would pull out, where straights wouldn’t. I call bs on it, my pole guy, who had been doing it for 30+ years said he never heard of it before either. He had to special order the bolts because nobody carried them. They do some strange things out in California!

That engineer is backwards..
common sense says so.

 

[LarryFine]

He said L bolts would pull out, where straights wouldn’t.

Huh?! Why does that sound opposite of what makes sense? Even foundation hold-down bolts are L-bolts.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I went through a plan review with a reviewer that came from Cali, he would not approve L bolts, and wanted straights. He said L bolts would pull out, where straights wouldn’t. I call bs on it, my pole guy, who had been doing it for 30+ years said he never heard of it before either. He had to special order the bolts because nobody carried them. They do some strange things out in California!

Most pole manufacturer's have a typical base design for their poles. What type of anchor bolts do they show in that typical design?

 

[Hv&Lv]

Most pole manufacturer's have a typical base design for their poles. What type of anchor bolts do they show in that typical design?

This is pretty typical with most we pour.

I have got poles with manufacturers drawings showing straight bolts, but they all have nuts on the bottoms of the bolts in concrete to prevent pullout.

 

[hillbilly1]

Must be a California thing! This was in a large suburb of Atlanta, not a podunk town plan reviewer.

 

[tom baker]

For street light foundation bolt damage, I have seen the concrete chipped back, bolts cut off, and studs welded on, by a certified welder.

 

[wyreman]

Most pole manufacturer's have a typical base design for their poles. What type of anchor bolts do they show in that typical design?

yes they are L bolts,
I am submitting the estimate later today.

I need to picture
how to move the heavy light pole
raise up the existing pole [sss-28'-4g-dm19as- dnaxd]
with heads [DSX2LED-P6-50K-T4M- MVOLT-SPA-DMG- DNAXD]
to access the the bolts on the base.
I would have thought you disassemble the lights from the pole to erect the fixture,
but manufacturer calls out to raise the completed assembly as a unit.
It seems many installers use a Gradall to get the poles into position.
I cant picture the harness to use with the Gradall tho.


After the base is revealed, we will have structural testing of the bolts.
The other question is regarding the best way to correct foundation bolt damage
if the bolts don't pass the structural pull test
I'm sure the anchor testing engineer will have an opinion and remedies for that, but the estimate is today and they haven't called back yet.

For the permit, I will call the city and see if inspection is necc for a repair, but it is probably a good idea.
City inspection and engineer release.
Now the one CE that I know doesn't want to work for me on this project, he says I am four levels deep and he only will work for an owner.

I got to figure the timeline if I will need any temp light for them since this is right in front of the store.

I remember when I started as a contractor, my friend who was already established told me that most guys starting out dont estimate too good.
He suggested that I come up with my best number... and then add a zero to the end of it

 

[kwired]

If it was hit by a truck aren't you sort of working for the insurance company covering that truck and not the store owner?

If store settled an amount with the truck owner/insurance then it is on them if actual cost is more than they settled for.

I guess if it was hit and run type of thing and they don't figure out who is responsible then you are probably working for the store or their insurance.

 

[hillbilly1]

yes they are L bolts,
I am submitting the estimate later today.

I need to picture
how to move the heavy light pole
raise up the existing pole [sss-28'-4g-dm19as- dnaxd]
with heads [DSX2LED-P6-50K-T4M- MVOLT-SPA-DMG- DNAXD]
to access the the bolts on the base.
I would have thought you disassemble the lights from the pole to erect the fixture,
but manufacturer calls out to raise the completed assembly as a unit.
It seems many installers use a Gradall to get the poles into position.
I cant picture the harness to use with the Gradall tho.
View attachment 2559657

After the base is revealed, we will have structural testing of the bolts.
The other question is regarding the best way to correct foundation bolt damage
if the bolts don't pass the structural pull test
I'm sure the anchor testing engineer will have an opinion and remedies for that, but the estimate is today and they haven't called back yet.

For the permit, I will call the city and see if inspection is necc for a repair, but it is probably a good idea.
City inspection and engineer release.
Now the one CE that I know doesn't want to work for me on this project, he says I am four levels deep and he only will work for an owner.

I got to figure the timeline if I will need any temp light for them since this is right in front of the store.

I remember when I started as a contractor, my friend who was already established told me that most guys starting out dont estimate too good.
He suggested that I come up with my best number... and then add a zero to the end of it

It is much easier to raise the poles with the heads on, you don’t need a boom truck to install the fixtures afterwards. There is a lot of companies out there that do that for a living with a crane truck. They have a special lanyard already made up, in which it has a hook that goes in the hand hole, and a slip knot that goes about 3/4 of the way up the pole. Once it’s set, it just slides back down to untie. I did one up in NC, where the local electrical contractor had a large crane that we hired to set the poles. It was large enough, that he set up in the middle of the parking lot, and set every pole there without moving!

 

[LarryFine]

I did one up in NC, where the local electrical contractor had a large crane that we hired to set the poles. It was large enough, that he set up in the middle of the parking lot, and set every pole there without moving!

That would have been cool to see.

 

[kwired]

It is much easier to raise the poles with the heads on, you don’t need a boom truck to install the fixtures afterwards. There is a lot of companies out there that do that for a living with a crane truck. They have a special lanyard already made up, in which it has a hook that goes in the hand hole, and a slip knot that goes about 3/4 of the way up the pole. Once it’s set, it just slides back down to untie. I did one up in NC, where the local electrical contractor had a large crane that we hired to set the poles. It was large enough, that he set up in the middle of the parking lot, and set every pole there without moving!

Well the larger the crane the higher the cost typically will be to have it on site. If it is there to do other jobs it may be worth it to have it do this job as well. Plus one needs to consider how much you save by setting up in one spot and not have to move vs having to move for every pole.

The cranes they build wind towers with around here are of course huge. They like to plan out moving them without having to break them down as much as possible as that can take a couple days or so just to have to break it down then reassemble after moving it in smaller components. They even paid POCO's to bury short sections of their medium voltage distribution at certain crossing points before project started because it supposedly cost them less to have that done then what it costs to break down and set up again when moving the crane.

 

[hillbilly1]

Well the larger the crane the higher the cost typically will be to have it on site. If it is there to do other jobs it may be worth it to have it do this job as well. Plus one needs to consider how much you save by setting up in one spot and not have to move vs having to move for every pole.

The cranes they build wind towers with around here are of course huge. They like to plan out moving them without having to break them down as much as possible as that can take a couple days or so just to have to break it down then reassemble after moving it in smaller components. They even paid POCO's to bury short sections of their medium voltage distribution at certain crossing points before project started because it supposedly cost them less to have that done then what it costs to break down and set up again when moving the crane.

They usually use a digger/derrick like the poco’s use for setting power poles. Quick to set up. And with the digger attachment, they can bore the holes for the base’s too. Usually a four hour minimum counting travel, but a single pole can easily be set in that amount of time. Not really any cheaper renting a Lull or rough terrain forklift for the day, and with that you have to do your own rigging.