Kerosene pump/ SEC violation 514.8

[ctaylo360860]

Kerosene pump is getting moved to location in first picture.
As I understand kerosene has a flashpoint of 100 degrees ferinheight. bcause it is not below 100, this is considered a classified location?

514.3(A) Unclassified Locations.
Where the authority having jurisdiction can satisfactorily determine that flammable liquids having a flash point below 38°C (100°F), such as gasoline, will not be handled, such location shall not be required to be classified.

The thing that caught my eye is that the service entrance conductors coming from poco transformer to Service disconnect cross right under a class 1 location. There are no seal offs and the race way is all in PVC. if im not mistaken i believe this is a violation of 514.8? I will add a third picture soon.

If the underground portion of the raceway passes below any class I location it still needs a seal off within 10 feet of emergence above grade. 514.8

 

[ctaylo360860]

The service conductors run right under the. Raceways that go to the class 1 environments.

 

[ctaylo360860]

Picture of poco transformer

 

[rbalex]

Kerosene is something of a judgment call. It is a Group D material and it also has a relatively high flashpoint thus making it a Class II combustible liquid. [See NFPA 497, Part 4.2.7 for some relevant material characteristics] NOTE: In this case, Class II is NOT a reference to dust.

Something many people fail to recognize about classified locations is that the classic Division definitions are in terms of possibility rather than probability; i.e., terms like could or may, rather than is.[See NEC Section 500.5]

If I were to classify the location you have described I would want to know a lot more about maximum ambient temperatures and their durations, prevailing wind directions, total fuel delivery rates, storage capacities, etc. If I knew all the relevant factors about the installation I may not classify it at all but, if I did classify the location, I would indeed require following the rules of Sections 514.4 through 9.

 

[ctaylo360860]

Kerosene is something of a judgment call. It is a Group D material and it also has a relatively high flashpoint thus making it a Class II combustible liquid. [See NFPA 497, Part 4.2.7 for some relevant material characteristics] NOTE: In this case, Class II is NOT a reference to dust.

Something many people fail to recognize about classified locations is that the classic Division definitions are in terms of possibility rather than probability; i.e., terms like could or may, rather than is.[See NEC Section 500.5]

If I were to classify the location you have described I would want to know a lot more about maximum ambient temperatures and their durations, prevailing wind directions, total fuel delivery rates, storage capacities, etc. If I knew all the relevant factors about the installation I may not classify it at all but, if I did classify the location, I would indeed require following the rules of Sections 514.4 through 9.

Thanks for the reply you have quite the credentials! Would this info your asking for be something a engineer would usually take care of?

 

[rbalex]

Thanks for the reply you have quite the credentials! Would this info your asking for be something a engineer would usually take care of?

Well, sort of. When you’re dealing with a more common motor fuel, such as gasoline, you can pretty much classify right out of Section 514.3. Kerosene does present a little more requirement for thought. Someone qualified to do electrical area classifications (not necessarily an engineer) may need to do a bit more research about the location’s environment, especially things like persistence of maximum ambient temperature, dispensing rates, and total amount of fuel involved. Once the location has definitely been determined to need classification, Section 514.3 can still be used if necessary.

 

[ctaylo360860]

Well, sort of. When you’re dealing with a more common motor fuel, such as gasoline, you can pretty much classify right out of Section 514.3. Kerosene does present a little more requirement for thought. Someone qualified to do electrical area classifications (not necessarily an engineer) may need to do a bit more research about the location’s environment, especially things like persistence of maximum ambient temperature, dispensing rates, and total amount of fuel involved. Once the location has definitely been determined to need classification, Section 514.3 can still be used if necessary.

looks like i need to read into nfpa 30a and also tables 514.3(b) (1) (b) (2) and get some information about the equipment. Looks like no matter the location of the kerosene tank it is going to be considered a class 1 environment because of it being a combustible liquid. Sounds like the safe bet is going to be to treat it as such and follow 514.4 - 514.9

looks like because i plan on doing an above grade instalation I will also need to follow 5.11.7(b)(1)
does this mean that the actual dispenser should be identified for class 1 location? or if were to install some type of emergency shut off switch it would also need to be identified for the location?

I made up a drawing of what i kind of have planned if i understand code correctly.

from inside panel i would run a raceway in either emt or m/c type wiring system to an explosion proof j box on the outside of the building.

from the explosion proof box i would have a seal within 18 inches of leaving and also with in 18 inches of a class 1 listed emergency stop using a rigid raceway

i would then have a seal within 18inches of leaving the emergency stop and with 18 inches of the dispenser that should be listed for class 1 environment.

i planed on transitioning for rigid on the outside of building to to liquid tight that will run to the dispenser for a flexible connection

 

[ctaylo360860]

Drawing

 

[ctaylo360860]

Looks like my j box on the outside doesn’t have to be explosion proof. If 501.10(4) applies

 

[rbalex]

Section 501.10(4) applies. Nothing outside the Classified envelope needs to be explosionproof. It’s possible things above the envelope may need attention [Section 514.11], usually luminaires, but rarely a simple junction box.

BTW your classification sketch looks good.

I’m sorry I haven’t responded for the last few days; I’ve been busy.

 

[ctaylo360860]

Section 501.10(4) applies. Nothing outside the Classified envelope needs to be explosionproof. It’s possible things above the envelope may need attention [Section 514.11], usually luminaires, but rarely a simple junction box.

BTW your classification sketch looks good.

I’m sorry I haven’t responded for the last few days; I’ve been busy.

That makes sense, had to think about it a little bit... looks like my luminaire should be okay since its not located over a lane in which vehicles are commonly driven or exposed to physical damage, but if it were it would have to be 12ft above floor level unless totally enclosed type. Thank you i appreciate all the help! I haven't gotten a chance to do much class 1 work so this is all new to me. No need to apologize I'm very appreciate of a response at all! thanks again for all the help!
in my drawing i had four seals,
i had one with in 18 inches of the dispenser
1 with in 18 inches of leaving the em stop
1 with in 18 inches of leaving the xjox
1 with in 18 inches entering the em stop

If I read 514.9(b)2 and 501.15 (A)(4) and (b)2 correctly i would need 3 seals one at the panel box, one at the dispenser. one within 18inches of leaving the em stop.

 

[rbalex]

A judiciously positioned seal can often perform multiple functions. Also if your emergency switch is factory sealed it doesn’t need an external one.

 

[ctaylo360860]

A judiciously positioned seal can often perform multiple functions. Also if your emergency switch is factory sealed it doesn’t need an external one.

I found out today that the tank actually contains diesel #1 so this should be a unclassified location.

 

[ctaylo360860]

I found out today that the tank actually contains diesel #1 so this should be a unclassified location.

Disregard the previous post, it looks like I got ahead of myself again... At elevated temperatures, diesel fuel will begin to vaporize and become ignitable with an open flame. The lowest temperature at which the vapor will ignite is the fuel’s flash point. Diesel fuel #2 as specified by ASTM D975 has a minimum flash point of 125.6°F. For diesel fuel #1, the minimum flash point is 100°F. since the flashpoint is 100°F looks like I'm still in a class 1 location.

 

[rbalex]

Reread what I said in Post #4. What you have is a class to combustible liquid. There are many considerations that need to be reviewed. In all likelihood it will not require being a classified location but we can’t do the documentation justification in these forums.