Kinks

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lunalilo

Member
I was working for a 'licensed' Electrician this week, and was stoked because I could learn good habits, or what-not. As I was watching him wiring the kitchen wall, I noticed three things that I question:

1) No 'romex organizers' and three runs of wire were staples side by side on the stud.

2)At some point, but not all, their were what seemed as 'messy' kinks in the points where the wire enters the blue boxes for the devices, and weren't smooth, which I am used to seeing.

3)Other times, some points of entry for the blue boxes seemed to have run out of wire and were trying to be 'stretched' into it.

Are any of these things ok according to the NEC?
 

Hendrix

Senior Member
Location
New England
I was working for a 'licensed' Electrician this week, and was stoked because I could learn good habits, or what-not. As I was watching him wiring the kitchen wall, I noticed three things that I question:

1) No 'romex organizers' and three runs of wire were staples side by side on the stud.

2)At some point, but not all, their were what seemed as 'messy' kinks in the points where the wire enters the blue boxes for the devices, and weren't smooth, which I am used to seeing.

3)Other times, some points of entry for the blue boxes seemed to have run out of wire and were trying to be 'stretched' into it.

Are any of these things ok according to the NEC?
Find another electrician to work for.
 

Umlaut

Member
There's nothing in code specifically about these issues. There's the "neat and workmanlike" clause, which is very subjective. There's also some clauses about the length of wire available in the box for connections, which might apply to your "stretched too short" concern.

A worker doesn't need to be neat. They can rush things through and get it done; once the wall is covered, then the property owner never sees it.

I think neat work is a respect to your profession and to the property owner. They might never realize this, and its realization is deferred, so some people cut that corner. The benefit of neat work is that it is easier to analyze and maintain; it's easier to see what was done, and there's no need to guess why. It's easier to fix, replace, enhance, or repair. That saves everyone time and money later on.

If you want to learn to be a respectful professional, then I think Hendrix is right; you should find someone else for a mentor. If you just want to do the minimum and scrape by, then mail it in and hang on.
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
Lunalilo, I hope that "stud" was a 2"x6" if he ran the cables side by side, or else he performed a code violation in front of your eyes. If it was 2"x6" there will still be more than an 1-1/4" from the facing edge of the stud to the cable if he was neat about it, and that would be ok.
 
2)At some point, but not all, their were what seemed as 'messy' kinks in the points where the wire enters the blue boxes for the devices, and weren't smooth, which I am used to seeing.

Are any of these things ok according to the NEC?
There are requirements for the minimum (or maximum...depends on how you look at it) radius of the bend of the wire going into the box if this is what you are talking about.
 

e57

Senior Member
Lunalilo, I hope that "stud" was a 2"x6" if he ran the cables side by side, or else he performed a code violation in front of your eyes. If it was 2"x6" there will still be more than an 1-1/4" from the facing edge of the stud to the cable if he was neat about it, and that would be ok.
A violation of what code specifically.... Try this fun trick... Take 3 cables to side of stud in succesion. Staple one center of the stud, then go down 6" and staple the next, then go down 6" and staple the next. Train the cable 1 1/4" away from the face in a stack, then do the same to support further down... Then when you get to the box - take one around to the other side of the box to enter.... No part of the code says you need to use stackers or CJ-6's to do this - it's just easier....
 

Split Bolt

Senior Member
A violation of what code specifically.... Try this fun trick... Take 3 cables to side of stud in succesion. Staple one center of the stud, then go down 6" and staple the next, then go down 6" and staple the next. Train the cable 1 1/4" away from the face in a stack, then do the same to support further down... Then when you get to the box - take one around to the other side of the box to enter.... No part of the code says you need to use stackers or CJ-6's to do this - it's just easier....
Sounds weird! can you post a photo?
 

glene77is

Senior Member
Location
Memphis, TN
lunalilo

Without looking this up,
there is a requirement of at least 3 inches of cable inside the box
and three inches outside.
There is a requirement of a minimum of 1/2 inch of insulation inside the box.

So, "Stretching" a cable sounds bad. :(
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
A violation of what code specifically.... Try this fun trick... Take 3 cables to side of stud in succesion. Staple one center of the stud, then go down 6" and staple the next, then go down 6" and staple the next. Train the cable 1 1/4" away from the face in a stack, then do the same to support further down... Then when you get to the box - take one around to the other side of the box to enter.... No part of the code says you need to use stackers or CJ-6's to do this - it's just easier....
No argument here with that E, I've used that trick myself a few times. I meant side by side all the way down with the staples lined up. That will put the outside edge ones into the 1-1/4" no no zone on a 2x4.
 

stew

Senior Member
the correct length of free conductor is 6 inches from where the conductor from where it emerges from the raceway or in the case of romex from its sheath. 3 inches is the minimum length outside the box.300.14 the correct length of sheath is 1/4 inch inside the box per 314.17(C)
 

wireguy8169

Senior Member
Location
Southern Maine
Started with a company and the guy who trained me always said "looks good when the walls are boarded up" he would always say I was taking to long cause I took the time to do a neat job. Once they let me out on my own, the inspector that did a majority of our inspections came to my site for my first inspection, was there and gone before I knew it. I saw him at lunch time and asked him if he was going to do the inspection today the rockers were coming in the morning. He said to me " I saw your work when you were with so and so, a nice neat install makes my job easier". And that was when I knew why so and so was always having to redo something. It may not always be required but neatness does count.
 

M4gery

Senior Member
Neatness is important, but some people go too crazy. I remember having to unstaple and re-run a couple cables because there was a twist in the romex (yes, ONE twist). I was told that the romex should be flat the entire way :roll:
 
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